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Congreso científico sobre la Atlántida

Noticia sobre la celebración en la isla de Milos, en julio de 2005, de un congreso científico sobre la fabulosa Atlántida. Contiene la noticia inicial, miembros del comité organizador, comité científico y participantes, resúmenes de los trabajos hasta entonces presentados y algunas ilustraciones. Gran variedad de enfoques y posibles lugares. El comité ha fijado los "24 criterios" que debe cumplir una candidata a ser la Perdida Atlántida. Actualizado el 16-10-2005 con la lista de esas 24 condiciones, a partir de los textos de Platón.





Noticia sobre la celebración en la isla de Milos, en el mes de julio de 2005, de un congreso científico sobre la fabulosa Atlántida. Se subió inicialmente en ese momento, y ahora (10 de agosto de 2005), pasado el paréntesis técnico de Celtiberia, se le añaden como novedad los miembros del comité organizador, comité científico y participantes, los resúmenes de los trabajos realmente presentados y algunas ilustraciones. Resulta muy interesante comprobar la variedad de enfoques sobre el problema, y las propuestas tan diversas sobre posibles lugares, lo mismo que los "24 criterios" que debe cumplir una candidata a ser la Perdida Atlántida. Otra novedad, en noticia de 15-8-05: en la Isla de Espartel (véase al final). Se añade, el 16-10-2005, la lista de esas 24 condiciones.

..............

Buscan restos de la Atlántida en Grecia

La mítica ciudad sumergida es motivo de un congreso científico. Intentan desentrañar las claves de una leyenda narrada por Platón hace más de dos mil trescientos años.

La ciencia ha decidido hacer el primer congreso internacional sobre un mito y una utopía. Eso está muy bien. Y no será el último que se haga sobre la materia. Eso está mucho mejor y habla muy bien de los científicos.

En Milos, una de las más bellas islas griegas del grupo de las Cícladas, se abrió ayer el primer congreso científico internacional para analizar el mito de la Atlántida, aquella ciudad majestuosa que se hundió para siempre en el Egeo, según relató Platón. La elección de Milos dice también que los científicos no son tontos. Se han reunido a pensar si Platón decía la verdad en una isla bellísima, con el mar más azul del mundo al alcance de la mano y al amparo de los aires mediterráneos que excitan la imaginación casi tanto como el ásPero vino de Creta. No está mal.

Como para descargar impuestos, Spyros Pavlidis, profesor de paleosismología de la Universidad de Salónica, en el norte de Grecia, se atajó al inaugurar las sesiones. "No se trata de determinar si la Atlántida existe o es sólo un mito, ni de localizarla de una vez por todas, lo que sería muy presuntuoso para una historia de más de 2.500 años. Lo que queremos es recapitular hipótesis, examinar las fuentes de inspiración de la leyenda."

La comida y bebidas mediterráneas suelen ayudar mucho y muy bien a examinar las fuentes de inspiración, como bien sabe Pavlidis, que en su disertación sobre la Atlántida clavó con la delicadeza de un cirujano el cuchillo de la duda: "Platón hablaba de una alegoría sobre la decadencia de una civilización. Pero tal vez esa alegoría tenga una pizca de verdad. La mayoría de los participantes de este congreso tienen por cierta la historia y buscan localizar la ciudad."

¿Qué dijo Platón? Que hubo una gran nación marítima, fabulosamente rica en maderas, metales y piedras preciosas, que en el reparto de bienes que hicieron los dioses le fue entregada a Poseidón, dios del mar y las tempestades. Que allí vivieron los atlantes y que todo ese reino de esplendor fue destruido por la corrupción de sus habitantes, que, además, intentaron sojuzgar a los pueblos vecinos. Fueron derrotados, cómo no, por los atenienses. Después, la Atlántida fue tragada por el mar en un cataclismo irrepetible. Mejor no hacer proyecciones. ¿Inventaba Platón, que murió en el 347 antes de Cristo?

Hace tres mil quinientos años, el estallido de un volcán sepultó una isla enorme de la que quedan sólo vestigios. Claro, son vestigios de una belleza incomparable, que conocemos como la isla de Santorini: desde su capital, Fira, se ven los atardeceres más hermosos del mundo. El maremoto que desató el estallido del volcán y que hizo nacer a Santorini arrasó con la civilización cretense, la del vino ásPero y seco. ¿Imaginó Platón a su Atlántida en Santorini o en alguna de las islas que quedaron sumergidas?

De desentrañar esa mitología, de descifrar esa utopía se encarga el primer congreso científico sobre la Atlántida que inauguró ayer el profesor Pavlidis en Milos, una isla casi tan rica como la Atlántida que nutrió a Creta y a Atenas de la obsidiana para sus armas y herramientas.

El congreso reúne a sismólogos, vulcanólogos, geólogos, geógrafos, filósofos, historiadores y arqueólogos que llegaron de los cinco continentes atraídos por el alboroto de trueno de la utopía desatada.

Entre los escritos presentados en el congreso los hay con títulos transparentes, como "La búsqueda de la Atlántida, la utopía de una utopía" hasta más crípticos como "La Atlántida era Israel". No falta quien arriesgue que trabajos como este último parecen haber sido escritos bajo el influjo del ásPero, y siempre traidor, vino de Creta.

Fuente: Gollem, Hispamp3.com, 13 de julio de 2005

Enlace: http://www.hispamp3.com/noticias/noticia.php?noticia=20050713084942,
A través de terraeantiqvae.com

NOVEDADES: "CRITERIOS", ORGANIZADORES, PARTICIPANTES Y RESÚMENES

Criterios que debe cumplir un “hallazgo” de la Atlántida

Un centenar de científicos participan desde el lunes en un congreso internacional en Grecia sobre el mito de la Atlántida.

Ellos prepararon una lista de 24 criterios que cualquier sitio emplazamiento supuesto de la ciudad mítica debe cumplir para ser creíble.

"La lista excluye de entrada a la mayor parte de emplazamientos mencionados hasta ahora, en particular Santorín", la isla volcánica de las Cicladas que aparece entre los enclaves posibles en la inmensa literatura consagrado al continente sumergido, indicó a la AFP Spyros Pavlidis, profesor de paleosismología de la universidad de Salónica (norte).

Casi todos los que participan en el congreso, aunque divididos entre los que creen en la veracidad de la historia de Platón, y los que, como él, piensan que es un mito, "se pusieron de acuerdo sobre esos criterios", dijo.

El congreso, que se pretende el primer evento "científico", se realiza en la isla de Milo y ha reunido, además de investigadores independiente, a sismólogos, vulcanólogos o geógrafos, al lado de filósofos, historiadores y arqueólogos llegados de universidades de cinco continentes.

Los investigadores de la Atlántida sólo deberán concentrarse en "una isla o en los restos de una isla", que haya acogido "une civilización desarrollada y marítima", con "una llanura costera rodeada de montañas que caen a pico en el mar", indica el geólogo griego Georges Vougioukalakis.

No obstante, ningún límite geográfico, en particular en la cuenca del Mediterráneo, ha sido fijada, agregó.

El inventario fue establecido "sólo con base en los escritos de Platón", precisó Stavros Papamarinopoulos, profesor de geofísica en la universidad de Patras, que cree por su lado en la historia.

Los participantes se pusieron de acuerdo en la creación de un comité internacional encargado de comparar las hipótesis sobre la Atlántida con estos criterios, en la esPera de la próxima reunión, en tres años, en Milo.

El objetivo del congreso no es "establecer si la Atlántida existió o no, ni de localizarla de una vez por todas, lo que sería presuntuoso para una historia vieja de más de 2.500 años", sino más bien "pasar revista a las hipótesis y censar los eventuales índices confiables", explicó a la AFP Pavilidis, al inaugurarse el evento el lunes.

Fuente: El Tiempo.com, Atenas/AFP, 14 de julio de 2005
Enlace: http://eltiempo.terra.com.co/cien/noticiascientificas/ARTICULO-WEB-_NOTA_INTERIOR-2146067.html


Atlántida – Atlantis 2005.
COMITÉ ORGANIZADOR, PROGRAMA DEL CONGRESO, LISTADOS DE AUTORES Y RESÚMENES YA PRESENTADOS
(añadido el 10-8-2005).


ATLANTIS: IF, WHEN AND WHERE?

At the dawn of the 21st century the mystery of what was recorded by Plato in the 4th century BC as one of the most advanced civilisations of the pre-historic world remains unsolved - the Lost Land of Atlantis.

According to Plato’s dialogues Timaeus and Critias, Atlantis was an island state that existed in the Atlantic Ocean opposite the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar) over 12,000 thousand years ago. It was populated by a noble and powerful race that enjoyed great wealth thanks to the natural resources and geographical layout of the island, and was therefore a significant centre for trade and commerce.

The people of Atlantis lived simple and virtuous lives for many generations. As Plato records, the Atlanteans slowly began to change as Greed and Power began to corrupt them, until finally Zeus responded to their immorality with a fierce punishment – with one violent heave, the island of Atlantis, its people and its memory were swallowed by the sea.

For years this story has attracted the attention and wonder of specialists in many fields and everyday people all over the world searching for clues to put together the pieces of this mysterious puzzle. Where was Atlantis really located? Was the story Perhaps an exaggeration based on the fall of the Cretan civilisation and the destruction of the island Thera? When did it actually exist? What is the truth about its destruction? Did it ever exist at all or was it purely fiction that served the purposes of Plato’s descriptions of an Ideal State?

Researchers and specialists from all four corners of the globe will gather on the beautiful Greek island of Milos at the “Milos Conference Centre – George Eliopoulos” to present and analyse a significant amount of new research and hypotheses that, thanks to modern technology and fresh ideas, has a great potential to wash away the centuries of mystery and produce clearer conclusions.

After all, a mystery is best solved at its very source, so where better to bring together the top international Atlantis researchers than in the country where the story of Atlantis was born, in the Mediterranean Sea where many believe the lost land lies deep under thousands upon thousands of years of history.

The conference will serve as the widest platform yet to deal with this hypothesis, with topics ranging from History, Archaeology and Philosophy all the way to Volcanology, Meteors and Oceanography. The actual number of places where Atlantis is believed to be located has today reached 27. And so the mystery lives on, but it seems to be only a matter of time until the truth is revealed.

ORGANIZERS

The conference is a Milos Conferences event.
The Milos Conferences is a function of the "Milos Conference Center - George Eliopoulos", a non-profit organization, located on the island of Milos, Greece. The Milos Conferences consist of different conference series, each devoted to a general subject. The conferences are held normally every two or three years and they are open to all scientists, whether from academia or industry.

For more information about Milos Conferences please click here.
Information: Heliotopos Conferences
Address: 28, Ypsilantou str.,
GR-17236, Dafni-Athens, Greece
Phone: +30 210 9730697
Fax: +30 210 9767208
E-mail: conf@heliotopos.net
Conference E-mail: atlantis@heliotopos.net

INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE

Prof. Michael FYTIKAS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, GR - Chair
Prof. Silvio CATALDI, University of Torino, IT
Prof. Christos DOUMAS, Greek Archaeological Society, GR
Prof. Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, Univ. of Patras, GR
Prof. Haraldur SIGURDSSON, University of Rhode Island, US
Dr. Georges VOUGIOUKALAKIS, Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration, GR
Prof. Spyros PAVLIDES, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, GR

INTERNATIONAL STEERING COMMITTEE

Prof. Maria Eugenia AUBET, Univesitat Pompeu Fabra, SP
Prof. Tim DRUITT, University Blaise Pascal Clermont - Ferrand, FR
Prof. Lorella FRANCALANCI, University of Florence, IT
Prof. Walter FRIEDRICH, University of Aarhus, DK
Prof. Renato FUNICIELLO, University Rome III, IT
Dr. Manolis GLEZOS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, University of Patras, GR
Prof. Alexander GORODNITSKY, Shirshovs Oceanology Inst., Academy of Sciences, RU
Prof. George HOURMOUZIADES, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, GR
Prof. Fabrizio INNOCENTI, University of Pisa, IT
Prof. Piero MANETTI, University of Florence, IT
Prof. Nano MARINATOU, Arcaelogist, GR
Prof. Pavlos MARINOS, National Technical University of Athens, GR
Prof. Ilias D. MARIOLAKOS, University of Athens, GR
Prof. Manolis MIKROGIANNAKIS, University of Athens, GR
Prof. Amos NUR, University of Stanford, US
Prof. Vassilios PAPAZACHOS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, GR
Prof. Giorgio PASQUARÉ, University of Milan, IT
Prof. Yilmaz SAVASCIN, Dokuz Elul University, TU
Prof. Sandro SBRANA, University of Pise, IT
Prof. Steve SPARKS, University of Bristol, UK
Dr. George STAVRAKAKIS, Inst. of Geodynamics, National Observatory of Athens, GR
Prof. Efstathios STIROS, University of Patras, GR
Dr. Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, NO
Prof. Filippos VALLIANATOS, Technological Educational Institute of Crete, GR
Prof. Yotzo YANEV, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, BU

LOCAL ORGANIZING COMMITTEE

Michael FYTIKAS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, GR
Athanasios KEFALAS, S&B Industrial Mining S.A.
Kostas KONSTANTINIDIS, Heliotopos Conferences
Rena KOUMANTOU, S&B Industrial Mining S.A.
Barbara BARAKOU, Heliotopos Conferences
Emmanuel J. VOULGARIS, Milos Conference Center - George Eliopoulos – Chair

List of Submitted Abstracts
(as Per 16-05-2005)

"Burckle Abyssal Impact Crater: Did this Impact Produce a Global Deluge?"
Dallas ABBOTT and L. BURCKLE, Columbia University, USA
W. B. MASSE, Los Alamos National Observatory, USA
D. BREGER, Drexel University, USA

"Mythical Aspects of Plato's Atlantis"
Alan ALFORD, Independant, U.K

"A Stone Code From Zambales Mountain Range: A Link To The Atlantean Myth"
Ronnie ALONZO, Keystone Research, Philippines

"The Phoenician Connection"
Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden

"Continental sized sunken island or not?"
Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden

"Atlantis in Morocco"
Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden

"Valbruna the Atlantis of the Adriatic"
Annamaria CAPICCHIONI, Scuola SuPeriore Rep San Marino, Italy

"The Geology of Gibraltar Strait and the Myth of Atlantis"
Jacques COLLINA-GIRARD, University Aix-Marseille I, France

"Scientific Atlantology. Atlantis in Gibraltar, between Iberia and Morocco. The only possible location of Atlantis."
Georgeos DIAZ-MONTEXANO, Scientific Atlantology International Society (S.A.I.S.) and Sociedad epigráfica de España (S.E.E.), Spain

"Scientific Atlantology. New proofs locates the origin of the story of Atlantis in time previous to Plato."
Georgeos DIAZ-MONTEXANO, Scientific Atlantology International Society (S.A.I.S.) and Sociedad epigráfica de España (S.E.E.), Spain

"Scientific Atlantology. The Plato's Atlantis, an historical-geographic and mythological description of Iberia and Morocco."
Georgeos DIAZ-MONTEXANO, Scientific Atlantology International Society (S.A.I.S.) and Sociedad epigráfica de España (S.E.E.), Spain

"The Search for Atlantis - The Utopia of a Utopia."
Christos DOUMAS, Greek Archaeological Society, Greece

"Global tsunami database as a possible source of data for verification of the Atlantis hypothesis"
Viatcheslav GUSIAKOV, Institute of Computational Mathematics and Mathematical Geophysics, Russia

"The destruction of Atlantis by a great earthquake and tsunami?
A geological analysis of the Spartel Bank hypothesis "
Marc-Andre GUTSCHER, IUEM - University of Brest, France

"A quick subsidence of a crustal block in SW Aegean Sea as a possible cause of the end of ancient civilization in 17th century BC"
L. EPPELBAUM, Tel Aviv University, Israel
A. PILCHIN, Universal Geoscience & Environmental Consulting Company, Canada

"A Geographic Comparison of Plato's Atlantis and Ireland as a Test of the Megalithic Culture Hypothesis"
Ulf ERLINGSSON, Geologist, USA

"The Minoan eruption revisited: Implications for the Atlantis hypothesis"
Gerald G.J. ERNST, University of Ghent, Belgium

"The Geography of Atlantis:Neither Allegorical Nor Exaggerated"
Rand FLEM-ATH, International Best Selling Author, Canada

"The Santorini Volcano: Geology and Atlantis Mythos"
Walter FRIEDRICH, University of Aarhus, Denmark

"Old and New Tools and Approaches in the Search of the Lost Land"
Michael FYTIKAS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece and
George VOUGIOUKALAKIS, Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration, Greece

"The Topos of Atlantis: Some Philosophical Insights"
Amihud GILEAD, University of Haifa, Israel

"Results of Russian Expeditions in Azoro-Gibraltar Tectonic Zone and Various Geophysical Model Atlantis Destruction"
Alexander GORODNITSKY, Shirshovs Oceanology Inst., Academy of Sciences, Russia

"The Straits of Gibraltar and the geographical place of Plato’s Atlantis through ancient exoceanic Periplus"
Cesar GUARDE-PAZ, AGON, Grupo de Estudios Filosoficos, Spain

"The Disc of Phaistos. An Object relating Sicily, Crete and the Island of Santorini"
Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany

"Atlantis - extincted on the Plateau of Malta
An ancient civilization at the transition from Neolithics to the Bronce Age"
Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany

"Was Atlantis a Bronze Age Metropolis in Northafrica?"
Ulrich HOFMANN, Indepentent Researcher, Germany

"The Tantalis Legend - Core Source for Plato's Atlantis"
Peter JAMES, Independent Scholar, UK

"Archaeological thought, narratives and the excavations of the Prehistoric site of Akrotiri, Thera"
Lilian KARALI, University of Athens, Greece

"The Origin of the Atlantis Civilization through Tamil literary evidence"
P. KARTHIGAYAN, Tuberculosis Research Centre (ICMR), India

The Cyclades Plateau (Aegean Sea): a lost “Atlantis”
Vasilios KAPSIMALIS, Hellenic Centre for Marine Research, Greece

"Helike and mythical Atlantis. An illuminating comparison"
Dora KATSONOPOULOU, The Helike Project, Greece

"Atlantis: Review of Some Little Known References"
Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece

"The Unsolved Mystery of Atlantis"
Sitharamamurty KOTTAPALLI, International Commission of History of Geological Sciences, India

"Plato's Atlantis Tale III: Geographical Elements"
Rainer KUEHNE, Individual Researcher, Germany

"Palaeogeographic reconstructions of the Aegean. Was Atlantis on the doorstep of Athens?"
Kurt LAMBECK, The Australian National University, Australia

"Plato´s Later Works and the Atlantis Report"
Doris MANNER, Independent, Germany

"Atlantis was Israel"
Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile

"Plato’s geographical errors"
Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile

"The sea sank"
Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile

"Reconstructing a lost island - A preliminary deciption of Thera (Santorini) before the Late Bronze Age Eruption"
Floyd W. MCCOY, University of Hawaii, USA

"Remote Sensing and the Search for Atlantis"
Angela MICOL, Satellite Discoveries, USA

"Traces of the lost Atlantis land at the Balkan Peninsula"
Dragan MILOVANOVIC, Faculty of Mining and Geology Serbia & Monte Negro

"Atlantis: Plato’s Memories of the Aegean Culture"
Mario NEGRI, IULM-Istituto di Linguistica Generale e Applicata, Italy

"Linking Myth, Religion, Philosophy of Science, and Geology – The Atlantis Example"
Amos NUR, Stanford University, USA

"The riddle of the Sea Peoples. A synopsis of the hard facts"
Diamantis PANAGIOTOPOULOS, University of Heidelberg, Germany

"Dating the catastrophe of pre-historic Athens. Evidence from Plato's Critias"
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece

"Platon's Phaeton and Homer's Phaethousa. Cometary Fragments in the 12th century B.C"
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece

"Atlantis - The Lost Land Hypothesis and the Cataclysmic Mass Edifice Failure of the Volcano of Santorini in the Bronze Age."
George PARARAS-CARAYANNIS, Retired Director International Tsunami Information Center (UNESCO - Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission), USA

"The Atlantis Story and Platonic Mimesis"
Theopi PARISAKI, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece

"What say the Greek Writers about Atlantis - A new map of Atlantis"
Theodoros PASCHOS, The Museum of Atlantis, Greece

"Atlantis in Greek Mythology"
Theodoros PASCHOS, The Museum of Atlantis, Greece

"Final Solution to the question of Atlantis"
Diamantis PASTRAS, Aten, Australia

"Interpreting Myths; Catastrophism and New Catastrophism"
Spyros B. PAVLIDES and Alexandros CHATZIPETROS,
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. Greece

"The Search for Atlantis: Ice Cores & Mammoths"
Monique PETERSEN, Independent, USA

"Plato´s Atlantis was in a River Delta. New insights taken from studying the Timaeus and Critias"
Ulf RICHTER, formerly: Dynamit Nobel AG, Germany

"The Novelty of the Atlantis Myth in the Light of Freudian Interpretation"
Yair SCHLEIN, Open University, Israel

"Atlantis in the Black Sea"
Siegfried G. SCHOPPE, University of Hamburg, Germany
Christian M. SCHOPPE, MBA

"The Deucalion Catastroph"
Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy

"Atlantis in Quisqueya"
Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy]

"An archaeological concept about the mythical conflict between Atlantis and Prehistoric Athenians"
Fotis TSAKOPOULOS, University of Athens, Greece

"A new geophysical interpretation of the Platonic multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol based on numerical simulations"
Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
V. V. SHUVALOV, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece

"The origin of the multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol and its relations to the Platonic scripts "
Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
V. V. SHUVALOV, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia

"Sea Routes in the Bronze Age Aegean"
Irene TZACHILI, University of Crete, Greece

"Atlantis in the Eyes of a Greek"
Vivi VASSILOPOULOU, Ministry of Culture, Greece

"11,500 years ago"
Rosario VIENI, Former High School History Professor, Italy

"The new cultural complex of Atlantis in the norhtern Atalntic and Mediterranean"
Alexandr VORONIN, RSLAP, Russia

"Nepture (Poteidaon). Platon. Atlantis"
Michael VRACHOPOULOS, Technological Educational Institute of Chalkida, Greece

"Locating the capital of Atlantis by strict observation of the text by Plato."
Werner WICKBOLDT, Independant, Germany

"Intermediary Embedded Synonymy, Integrated Ambiguous Homonymy, and the Egyptian Hieroglyphic Inspiration for the Atlantis Story"
Erick WRIGHT, Independent Researcher, USA

"Constraints on the search for Atlantis "
Timothy WYATT, Instituto de Investigaciones Marinas, Spain

LIST OF ABSTRACTS
(as Per 01-07-2005)

This list contains the abstracts of authors who have already registered and confirmed their place in the conference. Each week 10 randomly selected abstracts will be available on the website. To view, click on the "Abstracts of the Week".

Dallas ABBOTT and L. BURCKLE, Columbia University, USA
W. B. MASSE, Los Alamos National Observatory, USA
D. BREGER, Drexel University, USA
"Burckle Abyssal Impact Crater: Did this Impact Produce a Global Deluge?"

Ronnie ALONZO, Keystone Research, Philippines
"A Stone Code From Zambales Mountain Range: A Link To The Atlantean Myth"

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"The Phoenician Connection"

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"Continental sized sunken island or not?"

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"Atlantis in Morocco"

Jacques COLLINA-GIRARD, University Aix-Marseille I, France
"The Geology of Gibraltar Strait and the Myth of Atlantis"

Chara COSEYAN, University of Patras, Greece
"Ritual Capture and Sacrifice of the Bull at Atlantis. Are there any parallels?

Christos DOUMAS, Greek Archaeological Society, Greece
"The Search for Atlantis - The Utopia of a Utopia"

Niki DRIVALIARI, University of the Aegean, Greece
"Erytheia as 'Atlantis'. A case prior to Plato"

Ulf ERLINGSSON, Geologist, USA
"A Geographic Comparison of Plato's Atlantis and Ireland as a Test of the Megalithic Culture Hypothesis"

Walter FRIEDRICH, University of Aarhus, Denmark
"The Santorini Volcano: Geology and Atlantis Mythos"

Amihud GILEAD, University of Haifa, Israel
"The Topos of Atlantis: Some Philosophical Insights"

Marc-Andre GUTSCHER, IUEM - University of Brest, France
"The destruction of Atlantis by a great earthquake and tsunami?
A geological analysis of the Spartel Bank hypothesis "

Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany
"The Disc of Phaistos - An object relating Sicily, Crete and the Island of Santorini"

Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany
"Atlantis - extincted on the Plateau of Malta. An ancient civilisation at the transition from Neolithics to the Bronze Age"

Ulrich HOFMANN, Indepentent Researcher, Germany
"Was Atlantis a Bronze Age Metropolis in Northafrica?"

Vasilios KAPSIMALIS, Hellenic Centre for Marine Research, Greece
"The Cyclades Plateau (Aegean Sea): a lost Atlantis"

P. KARTHIGAYAN, Tuberculosis Research Centre (ICMR), India
"The Origin of the Atlantis Civilization through Tamil literary evidences"

Dora KATSONOPOULOU, The Helike Project, Greece
"Helike and mythical Atlantis. An illuminating comparison"

Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece
"Atlantis: Review of Some Little Known References"

Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece
"On the Atlantis-Thera Connection. Selected Bibliography"

Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece
"Atlantis - Fact or Fiction?"

Zdenek KUKAL, Czech Geological Survey, Czech Republic
"Atlantis Problem - Never Ending Conflict between Science & Fiction"

Kurt LAMBECK, The Australian National University, Australia
"Palaeogeographic reconstructions of the Aegean. Was Atlantis on the doorstep of Athens?"

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"Atlantis was Israel"

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"Plato’s geographical errors"

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"The sea sank"

Floyd W. MCCOY, University of Hawaii, USA
"Reconstructing a lost island - A preliminary deciption of Thera (Santorini) before the Late Bronze Age Eruption"

Erika NOTTI, IULM-Istituto di Linguistica Generale e Applicata, Italy
"Atlantis: Plato's Memories of the Aegean Culture"

Diamantis PANAGIOTOPOULOS, University of Heidelberg, Germany
"The riddle of the Sea Peoples. A synopsis of the hard facts"

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"Dating the catastrophe of pre-historic Athens. Evidence from Plato's Critias"

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"Platon's Phaeton and Homer's Phaethousa. Cometary Fragments in the 12th century B.C"

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"The Differences between Myth & Fiction and Myth & Fact

Theopi PARISAKI, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece
"The Atlantis Story and Platonic Mimesis"

Diamantis PASTRAS, Aten, Australia
"Final solution to the question of Atlantis"

Spyros B. PAVLIDES and Alexandros CHATZIPETROS,
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. Greece
"Interpreting Myths; Catastrophism and New Catastrophism"

Monique PETERSEN, Independent, USA
"The Search for Atlantis: Ice Cores & Mammoths"

Ulf RICHTER, formerly: Dynamit Nobel AG, Germany

"Plato´s Atlantis was in a River Delta. New insights taken from studying the Timaeus and Critias"

Yair SCHLEIN, Open University, Israel
"The Novelty of the Atlantis Myth in the Light of Freudian Interpretation"

Siegfried G. SCHOPPE, University of Hamburg, Germany
"Atlantis in the Black Sea"

Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy
"The Deucalion Catastrophe"

Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy
"Atlantis in Quisqueya"

Fotis TSAKOPOULOS, University of Athens, Greece
"An archaeological concept about the mythical conflict between Atlantis and Prehistoric Athenians"

Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
V. V. SHUVALOV, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"A new geophysical interpretation of the Platonic multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol based on numerical simulations"

Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"The origin of the multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol and its relations to the Platonic scripts "

Vivi VASSILOPOULOU, Ministry of Culture, Greece
"Atlantis in the Eyes of a Greek"

Rosario VIENI, Former High School History Professor, Italy
"11,500 years ago"

George VOUGIOUKALAKIS, Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration, Greece
Michael FYTIKAS, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece
"The Minoan Eruption of the Santorini Volcano and the Atlantis Hypothesis"

Werner WICKBOLDT, Independant, Germany
"Locating the capital of Atlantis by strict observation of the text by Plato."

Erick WRIGHT, Independent Researcher, USA
"Intermediary Embedded Synonymy, Integrated Ambiguous Homonymy, and the Egyptian Hieroglyphic Inspiration for the Atlantis Story"

Timothy WYATT, Instituto de Investigaciones Marinas, Spain
"Constraints on the search for Atlantis"

LIST OF AUTHORS
(as Per 01-07-2005)

This list contains authors whose paPers have been accepted but who have not yet registered for the conference.

Alan ALFORD, Independant, U.K
Annamaria CAPICCHIONI, Scuola SuPeriore Rep San Marino, Italy
Georgeos DIAZ-MONTEXANO, Scientific Atlantology International Society (S.A.I.S.) and Sociedad epigráfica de España (S.E.E.), Spain
L. EPPELBAUM, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Gerald G.J. ERNST, University of Ghent, Belgium
Rand FLEM-ATH, International Best Selling Author, Canada
Cesar GUARDE-PAZ, AGON, Grupo de Estudios Filosoficos, Spain
Viatcheslav GUSIAKOV, Institute of Computational Mathematics and Mathematical Geophysics, Russia
Peter JAMES, Independent Scholar, UK
Lilian KARALI, University of Athens, Greece
Sitharama murty KOTTAPALLI, International Commission of History of Geological Sciences, India
Rainer KUEHNE, Individual Researcher, Germany
Angela MICOL, Satellite Discoveries, USA
Dragan MILOVANOVIC, Faculty of Mining and Geology Serbia & Monte Negro
Amos NUR, Stanford University, USA
George PARARAS-CARAYANNIS, Retired Director International Tsunami Information Center (UNESCO - Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission), USA
Theodoros PASCHOS, The Museum of Atlantis, Greece
Irene TZACHILI, University of Crete, Greece
Alexandr VORONIN, RSLAP, Russia
Michael VRACHOPOULOS, Technological Educational Institute of Chalkida, Greece
…………………

Each week 10 randomly selected abstracts will be available on the website. Below are the abstracts that have been uploaded so far. To view the abstracts of this week, please go to the Authors page and click on "Abstracts of the Week".

Amihud GILEAD, University of Haifa, Israel
"The Topos of Atlantis: Some Philosophical Insights"

At the beginning of "Critias", Timaeus mentions a feeling of “the relief of the traveler who can rest after a long journey” (St. 106a). Yet the dialectical journey in the "Republic" and other Platonic dialogues does not come to its end. To end such a journey means to become wise, which is beyond any human capability; it is rather the capability of the gods. As lovers of wisdom, all the interlocutors at Plato’s dialogue are doomed to travel in an endless journey, which no rest can terminate. "Critias" is a dialogue with no end; it is endless even more than any aporetic dialogue, whose end is not the termination of its journey.
What is the deep connection between this sort of end and the myth of Atlantis? It has to do with the main insight that I’ll discuss at my presentation, namely, that Atlantis is atopos, not only as a utopia, but in the strict Platonic sense of it. The Ideas are supposed to be at a topos-a-topos, whereas anything below them in the ontic scale has a topos. At the lowest step of the scale one meets the eikasia, to which all images belong, one of which is any myth, especially that of Atlantis. Yet, in the place of Atlantis one cannot find it but only an open sea. This makes one of the Platonic strongest symbol for the dialectical-philosophical journey that has no end and does not terminate in rest. In a way Atlantis myth represents Plato’s dramatic writing (which I discuss in a book of mine*): anything at the scale below the Ideas is an image, a representation of something higher. The philosopher’s endless journey toward the Ideas consists of eikasia, for each grade of the ontic scale is an image of the higher grade. The topos of the Atlantis myth is, therefore, its distance from the aspired end of the journey. Any Platonic achievement, especially in writing, has such a topos, which is an indispensable part of reality, although never the really real itself.

Kurt LAMBECK & Anthony Purcell, The Australian National University, Australia
"Palaeogeographic reconstructions of the Aegean. Was Atlantis on the doorstep of Athens?"

Sea level has oscillated significantly during glacial cycles but because of the earth’s deformational and gravitational response to the changing ice sheets this change exhibits a complex spatial and temporal pattern. The major changes occurred from the onset of the last deglaciation until about 6000 years ago when globally sea levels first approached their present levels. Changes in the eastern Mediterranean, for example, differed from changes in the Baltic Sea as well as from changes in south-east Asia (1). Even within each region the rates and magnitudes of change vary by significant amounts because of the Earth’s response to the changing ice and water load as ice sheets melt and ocean volumes increase. In the Aegean, for example, the sea level rise varied from Thrace to Crete and from Milos to Rhodes (2). In many tectonically stable parts of the world’s coastlines these changes have been documented in the geological and archaeological records and when this is combined with geophysical theory of the Earth’s response, accurate predictive models of sea level change and shoreline evolution can be developed. Such models have been developed for many parts of the world, including the Aegean (2) and the straits from the Aegean to the Black Sea. At the time of the Last Glacial Maximum much of the area of now-shallow waters were exposed. In particular, the Cycladean group of islands formed an extensive land area extending north-south from Andros to Ios over a distance of ~ 160 km and with a maximum east-west extent of ~ 85 km. Milos remained separated from this ‘SuPer Cycladea’ but the separation was much reduced and could be crossed without loosing sight of land, both where one came from and where one was going to. The separation from the Greek mainland, between Andros and Evvoia, was also small. Initially this geography changed only slowly as the ice sheets began to melt and the earth began to respond to the changing surface loads. By 14,000 years ago the coastal geometry had changed only little but after this the rise in sea level was more rapid and the single island began to break up into two parts separated by a shallow sea. By about 10,000 years ago, the break-up became more substantial and the geography began to resemble its present configuration: the originally extensive, relatively flat and low-lying plain progressively reduced to a few rocky islands over a Period of about 6000 years. This evolution continued into more recent time, albeit at a much reduced rate, and in Early Bronze age sea levels here were as much as 5m lower than today. Can a collective long-term memory of this break up of SuPer Cycladea be the source of Plato’s Atlantis? The timing of the break-up and the description of the island is not at variance with Plato’s account but its veracity requires long preservation of mythologies.

Flood myths from other parts of the world come from areas that were subject to similar rapid shoreline migrations where coastal communities were continually disrupted by the rising sea. Does the Sumerian Flood legend have its origins in the flooding of the Persian Gulf that occurred until about 6000 years ago (3,4). Does the remarkable similarity of the Irish Sea between the description in the Mabinogion and model reconstructions also reflect a distant memory?

Siegfried G. SCHOPPE & Christian Schoppe, University of Hamburg, Germany
"Atlantis in the Black Sea"

Until around 5500 BC the Black Sea was a (smaller) freshwater-lake. The breaking Bosporus sill led to a flood commonly referred to as Noah’s Flood (Pitman/Ryan). Although heavily attacked, just recently this theory has gained support from new studies. We propose that Atlantis was an early neolithic settlement at the former shoreline of that lake.
With regard to the interactions between the Atlanteans and the ancestor peoples of Athens and Egypt we propose that the saga refers to a war between Europe and Small Asia (Anatolia) where the peoples of Athens and Egypt with their equivalent gods Athene and Neith were located. The war was initiated over the Obsidian stone (Oreichalcos) which was the equivalent of money at that time and which was found in the Carpathian Mountains (Atlantis), on Milos (Tyrrhenia) and in Anatolia.
As far as archaeology is concerned, the year 5500 BC marks the rise of the Vinca culture on the Balkans with their Old European Writing (sic!) and the Neolithic Diaspora in Europe. The first settlers reached Egypt at 5500 BC, and we follow the theory of Robert Schoch that the Sphinx dates back as far as 5000 BC. Finally, we were able to exactly locate the former ten kingdoms of Atlantis due to the meaning of the words accompanied by a stunning similarity in sound.
We suppose that the Pillars of Herakles are equal to the Bosporus for several reasons. Further, in our opinion the Marmara Sea equals the haven with a narrow entrance.

Ulf RICHTER, Independent, Germany
"Plato´s Atlantis was in a River Delta. New insights taken from studying the Timaeus and Critias"

Reading Plato´s two books about Atlantis and comparing the described facts with modern knowledge about geology, tectonics, archaeology and technology gives us new insights about how Atlantis had looked. This is necessary before we can look for its proPer location.
We know that around the Royal City of Atlantis was an absolutely flat and even plain, irrigated by a widely branched system of canals which drain into the sea. This plain was mainly formed by alluvial land in a large river delta. To feed such a delta, the area of the whole country must have been at least 10 times as large as the plain. There must have been a chain of high sand dunes along the shore.
The hill with the central temple was formed by tectonic forces during the uplifting of a salt dome. The 3 circular ditches were formed by natural erosion, and the two fountains on the central islands brought water from the distant mountains.
For the irrigation of the fertile alluvial plain a central organisation was necessary which led to the formation of the high culture of Atlantis, as it was the case in most other early cultures in the world.
The canals in the alluvial plain were V-shaped. The excavated silt was used to build dams on both sides to protect the fields against flooding by the tides and from the mountains. The reported depth of the canals shows that Plato´s “stades” must be translated as Egyptian length units “Khet” (1 khet = 52,4 m), and so we get realistic dimensions for the plain (length 157 km, width 105 km) and the Royal City (diameter 6,6 km). Tables show the dimensions of Atlantis in comparison with buildings and canals in antique and modern times.

Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
V. V. SHUVALOV, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
"A new geophysical interpretation of the Platonic multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol based on numerical simulations"

The most characteristic geomorphologic feature of the capitol of Atlantis, as described by Plato in the 4th century B.C. based on information given by the Egyptian priesthood in the 6th century B.C. to the Athenian Solon, was the existence of concentric multi-rings surrounding an elevated central region. The multi-ring morphology included three elevated rings of land segregated by equivalent number of troughs filled with water (e.g. Kabanakis, 1996). The origin of the Atlantis characteristic geomorphology has been until now vied as related to volcanic concentric crater (e.g. Fouque, 1869, 1879; Marinatos, 1939; Galanopoulos, 1960), and may alternatively considered as possibly related to processes of salt/evaporate-deposits withdrawal and diapirism and to mud-volcano or clay-diapirism. We now propose, based on an idea of one of us (Papamarinopoulos, 2001) who refuted the equation Santorini=Atlantis by proposing an alternative non-volcanic mechanism for the origin of the multi-ringed feature described by Plato, that there is a more profound connection of Atlantis multi-ring morphology to meteorite impact-related processes. We have used the SOVA multi-material hydrocode (Shuvalov, 1999; Shuvalov, 2002; Shuvalov et al., 2002) to model numerically the cratering and early modification stages of a possible meteorite impact. The best results were obtained using a three-layer target with a composite strength structure composed, from top to bottom, of: 1) a few hundred meters in thickness of material proPerties approximating a siliciclastic sedimentary layer (dry friction of 0.7 and cohesion of 1MPa), 2) a few hundred meters in thickness of a low strength layer resembling salt/evapotite or clay deposits (zero friction and cohesion of 1MPa), and 3) an increased strength layer of either greatly compacted sediments or basement (dry friction of 0.7 and cohesion of 1MPa). The impact was simulated by a 400-m-diameter stony meteorite projectile impacting vertically at a typical velocity of 17 km/s. The ANEOS equation of state has been employed to model the thermo-dynamical proPerties of the materials. Simulations were Performed both for onshore/coastal target environment and for targets with a shallow water cover, ~10-50 m, on top. The numerical simulations clearly show that multi-ring features are possible at this scale for specific layered targets. In particular, a central peak feature with a diameter of 0.9-1 km is simulated, surrounded by multiple rings and troughs that indicate an intense central deformation within a 6-8 km diameter. Depending on the proPerties of the upPer 1-2-km-thickness target and the presence of water, the simulations have shown that subdued outer deformation may reach a diameter of 22-24 km. The developed shock compression pressure reached during impact has exceeded the melting shock pressure for the target materials and therefore melts were produced. Furthermore, modelling has shown that the impact-induced temPerature increase within the upPer 1-km-thickeness target has reached >250 degrees (C) and concentrated within the central peak of the structure. The increase in temPerature is capable to initiate a hydrothermal system lasting for a maximum duration of approximately 10,000 yrs; thermal exhaustion may actually be much faster due to water circulation at the hydrothermal system itself. The simulations for the capitol of Atlantis produce a structure that is comparable (keeping in mind the differences in absolute dimensions and impact-energy release) with well preserved central-peak and peak-ring craters (e.g. Mjølnir Crater, Tsikalas et al. 1998a-c, 1999, 2002a-b; and Silverpit Structure, Stewart and Allen, 2002). An additional final feature that might be included in the simulations is the occurrence of concentric erosive/resurge gullies similar to those observed at several impact craters (e.g. Tsikalas and Faleide, 2004; von Dalwigk and Ormö, 2001) that may possibly result due to a shallow-water cover on top of the target and/or facilitated by pre-existing fracture systems.

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"The Phoenician Connection"

Atlantis was, according to Plato, located outside the Pillars of Heracles ( the straits of Gibraltar ) ( Tim. 24e ). The first born child of the Atlantean god Poseidon was named Atlas and received the island of Atlantis as his lot. The second born child was named Gadeirus, and received as his lot the country facing Gadeira ( Crit. 114b ), an ancient Phoenician town and region in southern Spain. According to Plato, this fact may have given the region its title “Gadeira or Gadir”. The question now remains: Was Atlantis an ancient Phoenician colony? I will show that Plato’s descriptions of the Atlantean civilization strongly reminds you of the early Phoenician/Tyrian colonies in the west, and that the Tyrian god Melqart is identical to the Atlantean Poseidon, both of them founders of Gadeira.

List of common traits:
- Sacred fire
- Sacred springs
- CopPer/bronze/brass pillars with inscriptions in the temple
- A god representing the power of the monarchy
- A god associated with fertility and the sea
- Foundation of cities attributed to the god
- Bull sacrifice to the god
- Security offered by the god in his temple
- Mutual relations regulated by the god in his temple
- Strong oaths binding cities/colonies to each other
- Location of cities in the Atlantic
- Position of cities on hills in river deltas
- The temple of the god preceding the actual city
- The god was the founder of Gadeira/Gadir

Werner WICKBOLDT, Independant, Germany
"Locating the capital of Atlantis by strict observation of the text by Plato."

The examination of the term „nesos/ island“ in Egyptian and Greek language indicates that „nesos Atlantis“ must not be an island but it even may be a coastal area. It is looked along the western coast of Europe and Africa for a landscape that fulfils the report of Plato. The only landscape that is satisfying is found inside the mouth of the river Guadalquivir. The area that is considered is destinated by maps created in search of the settlement of Tartessos by Prof. Schulten in the 1920th. Schulten refers to ancient writers using the term „nesos“ in connection to the Nile, Indus, Tiber and Tartessos. Will „nesos Tartessos“ be equal to „nesos Atlantis“?
The possible territory is a part of the valley flat of the Marisma de Hinojos inside the Parque National Coto de Donana. To go there is not Permitted. Therefore a satellit view is ordered. Two circular arcs crossing the banks of a river are detected. Near to the center of them two rectangle are to be seen. One of them seems to be the temple of Atlantis with the proportions length/width = 2/ 1. Encouraged by this further parts of circular arcs are detected concentrically to the same center. Completed out to a system of circles it corresponds to the description of Plato´s center of Atlantis. Further on the canal of Atlantis running to the sea may be identified by a line of lakes. It´s length even corresponds to the desription of Plato´s canal from the center to the sea.
The outlined structures correspond in their positions and dimensions to the description of the capital of Atlantis. This has been worked out theoretically but has to be testified by archaeological excavation before you may say: Atlantis is discovered.

Ronnie ALONZO, Keystone Research, Philippines
Joel Quines, Keystone Research, Italy
"A Stone Code From Zambales Mountain Range: A Link To The Atlantean Myth"

A stone code found in Zambales Mountains in 1985 shows the location of the lost island of Atlantis. The lines on the artifact when plotted in a world stress map being developed by USGS falls along the compression and spreading centers around the globe thereby giving impression that these represents the "force" that reshapes the surface of the earth and creating geological stress around the entire planet.
The attributed location of Atlantis discovered on the overlying surface of the stone map when projected in a dynamic earth map using Coreldraw process falls along the geographical locations of Iceland, the British Isles, Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands. These islands have stories recounting their ancestors descending from a mighty race that inhabited an island in the Atlantic believed to be the legendary Atlantis.
Recent discoveries on both sides of the Atlantic revealing submerged structures like walls, buildings, pyramids, roads and sometimes outline of a complex urban development is a clear proof of Atlantis-an island that was destroyed by natural forces and finally resting at the bottom of the oceanfloor 11,000 years ago after a world-wide catastrophe.
This paPer analyzes data from seismology, oceanography, underwater and satellite photography during the 17-year study Period and comparing them with information from the stone map resulting to a hypothesis presented herein.
The analysis shows that the Atlantis figure in the stone map is in the same geographical location as described by Plato in Critias and Timaeus thereby also giving credence to the cartographic sketch of Atlantis drawn by Athanasius Kircher in 1665.

Yair SCHLEIN, Open University, Israel
"The Novelty of the Atlantis Myth in the Light of Freudian Interpretation"

A corner stone in Platonic political philosophy is a mythical Perception of the Polis as an organic being that has an inevitable natural course of deterioration. Plato illustrated this process in the comparison between the contemporary and the utopic Athens as portrayed in the myth of Atlantis. The Atlantis myth illustrates the Ideal regime and serves as a starting point to the description of the state "pathology", that is to say, the degeneration process of the state that differs from the "physiology" of state that depicts the political structure in a given time. In other words, the myth expresses the inherent causes for the deterioration of the polis.
Freud too, in his book "Civilization and its Discontents", described society as a self-destructive. The analogous Perceptions of the life of an individual to the structure of the state, and the similar characteristics Plato and Freud attributed to the state are surprising. In order to discuss these similarities it is necessary to point out the outstanding and unique characteristics that particularly at his time distinguished the Platonic myth. For example, although the nostalgic attitude to the Ideal Past is common to the myth of Atlantis and the Hesiodic Myth of races and other political myths of his time, the Platonic political thought culminates in the unique idea of the state's structure. This structure is an expresses of the ideal relations that ought to exist between the state and the individual.

Dallas ABBOTT and L. BURCKLE, Columbia University, USA
W. B. MASSE, Los Alamos National Observatory, USA
D. BREGER, Drexel University, USA
"Burckle Abyssal Impact Crater: Did this Impact Produce a Global Deluge?"

We have found an impact crater that is likely < 6000 years old. Burckle crater is in the central Indian Ocean at 30.87° S 61.36°E. The crater is 31±1 km wide. The crater is deepest SE of its center. There is a deep gouge in the surface topography to the SE and a topographically smooth area NW of the crater rim. These topographic features suggest that the impactor came from the SE and that the tektite field lies NW of the crater rim. We are looking for tektites in young abyssal sediments from NW of the crater. Because the impactor hit a fracture zone wall, the rim of Burckle crater is unusually well defined. The crater rim shows evenly spaced notches that we interpret as resurge gullies. Near Burckle crater, we found a 26 cm thick layer with high magnetic susceptibility that extends to the top of core DODO132P. DODO132P has a basal age of Pleistocene. The high susceptibility layer contains numerous Mn oxide coated rock fragments, as expected for an ejecta layer from an impact that fragmented a fracture zone wall. These fragments do not resemble typical Mn nodules. We also found clear fragments of mid-ocean ridge type plagioclase and a 200 micron wide grain of native Ni. The Ni is clearly a fragment of the impactor as it has an ablation rind of NiO that forms drops on the surface of the grain. The Ni contains no significant Fe and we interpret it as a piece of a comet. Burckle crater impact event is in the right location to be the source of devastating rains, tsunamis, winds, and associated social upheaval around 2807 B.C.

Erick WRIGHT, Independent Researcher, USA
"Intermediary Embedded Synonymy, Integrated Ambiguous Homonymy, and the Egyptian Hieroglyphic Inspiration for the Atlantis Story"

Introduction
Critias asserted that Solon brought the Atlantis story back from Egypt and that he derived the Greek character names by translating the meanings of the names inscribed in the Egyptian hieroglyphic records.

No academic scholar has ever attempted to determine if Critias’ assertion would actually yield any information regarding the origins of the story.
My research examined:
a. Meanings of character names
b. Synonymous words in Egyptian hieroglyphic language
c. Whether synonymous words yielded clues as to story’s origin

Procedure
1. Examined etymological roots of character names and found true sense of names in Greek.
2. Translated senses of names by finding synonymous words in
Egyptian hieroglyphic language.

Results
Synonymous words yielded no clues themselves; however, I observed that homonyms of synonymous words yielded very interesting results.

Example 1: Cleito means “renowned,” which translates as ab. Meanings of ab homonyms include:
To face some enemy
Ivory
Elephant
To sink

Example 2: Leucippe means “white horse,” which translates as hetch ses. Meanings of hetch ses homonyms include:
Chapel (of) Rameses III
To filch from Rameses III
To block (of a road)
White stone

Further exPerimentation determined that all fourteen names exhibited correlations to Mortuary Chapel of Rameses III and yielded details of Atlantis story.

Discussion
Research is on-going and no conclusions have yet been reached; observations have been submitted to make academic community aware of research, prompt discussion, and possibly solicit assistance.
For now, the phenomenon remains merely an interesting coincidence, however, future studies include:
• Possibility of surreptitious appropriation and allegorical utilization of “Sea Peoples” story
• Examination of hieroglyphic inscriptions at Medinet Habu
• Determination as to reversibility of process
• Viability of previously undiscovered literary device
• Philosophical implications

Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany
"The Disc of Phaistos - An object relating Sicily, Crete and the Island of Santorini"

A hypothesis will be presented making it probable that the Disc of Phaistos is the oldest document of a pictographic writing. It could have come to Crete together with Atlantian refugees after the catastrophy which destroied Atlantis. Evidently there exist close relations to the frescos excavated at Acrotiri on the island of Santorin. An interpretation of the contents will be given.

P KARTHIGAYAN, Tuberculosis Research Centre, India
"The Origin of the Atlantis Civilization through Tamil literary evidences"

Introduction: Discovering the origin of a civilization that was devastated and buried deeply by numerous deluges, is quite difficult since the depth prevents their identification and excavation. Under such circumstances, reliance on literary evidence comes to our rescue.

Epistemology: Intelligent human race existed several million years ago. They spread their wisdom to their fellow men. Their decedents discovered controlling nature and utilized power of air, gas, magnetism, etc., to enable mode of travel across earth, oceans and sky. They discovered that humans die leaving their body while the world renovates its body after natural calamities like great floods, earthquakes, etc. Their cultural literature were stored in an iron chest, preserved under deep water reservoir, so that the water bed will reduce the impact of great floods and save the literature for future generation that spread across the deformed lands of the tilted globe on all directions. Their logical penetration towards knowledge, could pave way towards stable science, which is not possible otherwise through the mundane approach. It is believed that, even the glorified races like the Greeks and Egyptians possessed lesser knowledge than this race. Their great scientific secrets were inscribed upon palm leaves and made indestructible by transforming them into stone, preserved in stony caves and thus immortalized their wisdom (This idea is supported by Chinese mythology also). Their knowledge is still evidenced on the structure of temples, scientific beliefs, nature-dependent health care traditions, and mythological faith on immortality, found in India.

Conclusion: Analyzing the above literary evidences resemble similar to that of Atlantis civilization. Since, all these literary evidences are available in Tamil, the language Perfected by the immortals in ancient times, it is strongly believed that the land of the Tamils, in and around India, could be the remains of the origin of the ancient glorious Atlantis.

Ulf ERLINGSSON, Independent, USA
"A Geographic Comparison of Plato's Atlantis and Ireland as a Test of the Megalithic Culture Hypothesis"

In "Atlantis from a Geographer's Perspective: Mapping the Fairy Land" (Lindorm Publishing, 2004) I hypothesized that the Atlantean Empire was modeled on the Megalithic Culture of Europe and Northern Africa. It then followed that Ireland must have been the island of Atlantis. This was tested using two geographical tests, each of which surpassed the 95% confidence level: One regarding length and width, the other regarding the plain surrounded by mountains.

In addition to these statistically significant matches, the overall geomorphology also agrees well. Compare this quote from "The World Factbook" (2003) about Ireland: 'Mostly level to rolling interior plain surrounded by rugged hills and low mountains; sea cliffs on west coast', with these from "Critias": 'The whole island was high and steep on the side of the sea, but at and around the city the surrounding was a plain, which in turn was surrounded by mountains that sloped down to the sea.' ... 'The hills on the island were gently rolling, and the island had an elongate shape, three thousand stadia long and two thousand across in the centre of the island.'

In fact, Ireland is about 2,960 stadia long and 2,060 across in the centre—if using the megalithic yard of 0.829 m proposed by Alexander Thom. Although Ireland's dimensions are within 3% of those of Atlantis, only one significant digit was used in the dimension test.

The second statistical test concerned the fact that mountains surrounded central lowlands. Only one of the fifty largest islands on earth has that landscape: Ireland. The combined probability that Plato described Atlantis as so similar to Ireland by chance was calculated to less than 0.02%.

Considering also the similarity with Irish archaeology and mythology, the earlier sinking of Dogger Bank, and the simultaneous disappearance of the Kongemose Culture, the hypothesis is retained.

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"Atlantis was Israel"

In a meticulous investigation, published in my book "Atlantis: the deciphered myth" and supported by the most recent advances in different disciplines, I maintain that the mythical civilization existed in the Near East, its centre being located in the areas comprised by Samaria, Judea, Neguev - today Israel- and Sinai- today part of Egypt. Until about 7,600 years ago, this territory was an island, surrounded by a sea that then included the present valley of Leesrael and the Sea of Galilee in the North; the Dead Sea in the East and the Strait of, or present Suez Canal on the West, which made it a huge island located in the Mediterranean Sea.

In that region, more than 11,500 years ago - according to Plato- the Natufian culture was born and prosPered. The Natufians were the first food producers in history, which expanded in the following millennium from East to West, from the Mediterranean to the Zagros Mountains (Jarmö), and from North to South from Syria (Ugarit) to the 5th cataract of the Nile river (Badarian) including the Red Sea and Arabia, with an extension of thousands of kilometers, as the legend indicates. Towards 8,000 B.C., they founded the first cities and ports (such as Jericho, Ugarit and Jarmö). Their beginning and end are related to a global climatic change, which took place due to defrosting in the northern region of the Earth, definitively decaying c. 5,600 B.C. due to a natural catastrophe of enormous proportions in the Eastern Mediterranean (Ryan and Pitman).

Its existence generated the myth of the Atlantis, which is the origin of the Afro-Asian nations. It was also the base for the expansion of the cattle raising and crop growing civilization in the four cardinal points. And it is from them that towards the beginning of the fifth millennium B.C., the best known classic civilizations emerged: Lower Egypt (Gerzean) and UpPer Egypt (Amratian), Crete (Minoan), South-East Europe (Hamangiar, Vincas, Danilo Hvar), Mesopotamia (Tell-Halaf-Uruk), India (Harappa), Yemen (Saba) and Spain (Tarsis).

Walter FRIEDRICH, University of Aarhus, Denmark
"The Santorini Volcano: Geology and Atlantis Mythos"

The Santorini Volcano in Greece is famous for its unique, water-filled caldera, the white pumice layers covering a big part of the island complex, and for the Bronze Age findings buried underneath the ashes. The Minoan eruption that took place 1645 BC destroyed a flourishing Bronze Age settlement, and – according to some scholars - Plato’s account of the legendary island Atlantis is most probably linked to this volcanic catastrophe.

Since 1975 the author has Performed geological research on Santorini which has resulted in a reconstruction of the pre-Minoan island. The discovery of datable limestone blocks (stromatolites) and other geological investigations showed that a substantial part of the Santorini caldera already existed prior to the Minoan eruption. The pre-Minoan island had a shape similar to the present, with a water-filled caldera and an island in the middle. This reconstruction is now commonly accepted and has successively resulted in geological and archaeological reconsiderations.

Ulrich HOFMANN, Independent Researcher, Germany
"Was Atlantis a Bronze Age Metropolis in Northafrica?"

No doubt about Plato's intension: The Atlantis tale was placed to illustrate the 'Ideal State' developed in his earlier work 'Politea'. Repeatedly that fact was used to claim the Atlantis tale was pure fiction. But neither Prehistoric Athens nor the description of Atlantis show sufficient correspondence with the Ideal State. Plato admits the Atlantis tale is unPerfect but emphasizes the tale's merit: its authenticity. When Plato wrote down 'Critias' almost any greek might have visited egypt to proof the story to be right or wrong. None of the critics seems to have taken that into account.

An often neglected detail is Plato describes Atlantis to have ruled over Libya to egypt. That means Atlantis must have been located west of Libya and Libya itself must already have been part of the Atlantean territory. That coincides with a statement of Herodotus who tells about a libyan people called 'Atlantioi' living far in the west of North Africa. Also greek mythology places Atlas near lake Tritonis in western North Africa. Plato describes Atlantis as a huge island with a large central plain everywhere surrounded by high mountains. That description fits very well with the Maghreb. The high plain of Algeria is everywhere surrounded by the chains of the Atlas mountains. The shallow Atlantean sea that should have finally vanished resembles the description of lake Tritonis which today is identified with Chott el-Djerrid. Further details like the elefants of Atlantis fit very well with the west of North Africa. Infrared satellite images show a huge sunken geological structure consisting of several concentric circles recently discovered in the eastern part of the Algerian high plain. For 100 years already egyptology has knowledge of a mighty power that ruled from west up to egypt: TEHENU.

Theopi PARISAKI, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece
"The Atlantis Story and Platonic Mimesis"

The events evoked by the story of Atlantis are located in a distant place and time and, therefore, do not Permit verification. The vast majority of classical scholars take the story to be an invented myth. Scientists, on the other hand, have been trying to give their hypotheses a scientific basis. Since Plato is the first who wrote about Atlantis, we have to pay serious attention to his own descriptions of the story contained in the Timaeus and Critias, in order to decide whether it is a true story, a myth, a likely myth or something else.

After summarizing the ideal state of the Republic (Timaeus, 17c), Socrates asks his interlocutors to give a representation of this state in action engaged in war with other cities, and he remarks that it is very difficult for someone to imitate well in words things which he has not exPerienced. In the Critias (106c), Critias calls for imitation again and parallels his discourse with painting, as being both imitations or copies of reality. Given that imitation is thrice removed from reality according to the Republic, which is taken as a starting point in the Timaeus (17c, 19a, 27d ff.), one could assume that the Atlantis story is far from truth, because it is an imitation unlikely to provide all the details of reality. However, in the Timaeus the story is characterized as true both by Critias (21a) and Socrates (26e), and the same characterization is implied in the Critias (108d). In order to explain these inconsistencies, we shall have recourse to Plato’s meanings of mimesis and related ideas in previous dialogues.

Timothy WYATT, Instituto de Investigaciones Marinas, Spain
"Constraints on the search for Atlantis"

The essentials of Plato’s Atlantis are that a Bronze Age civilization was rapidly overwhelmed by water and fire. The Athenians were simultaneously swallowed by the earth. If the myth contains germs of real events, is neither fiction nor political propaganda, then any naturalistic interpretation of them is almost bound to hinge on catastrophic geological or astronomical events, and we can ask questions about when and where. Many attempts to determine a location for Atlantis have ignored the temporal and spatial considerations which must constrain a search for these details. Since the Last Glacial Maximum, there have been three major Periods of rapid rise in worldwide sealevel, table I;

Time, yr BP Rise in sealevel, m
I Collapse of Laurentide and Antarctic ice sheets ~ 14000 ~ -110 à - 60
II End of Younger Dryas ~ 11500 ~ - 60 à - 25
III Release of meltwater ~ 7500 ~ -25 à +5

These estimates ignore tectonic instabilities and isostatic compensation. The first is too early to expect the kind of social organization Plato described. The second accords with Plato’s figure of 9000 years before his time, but still predates the Bronze Age. The third Period, but a different mechanism, is invoked to account for a version of Noah’s flood. Regionally, there may have been other events less apparent in the geological record. The depths flooded tell us how deep the archaeological remains of lost cities might lie for different time horizons according to orthodox views of the magnitude of post-Pleistocene marine transgressions; putative remains of Atlantis at depths greater than say 150 m require special pleading. Classical scholars place the destruction much later than the Periods listed in table I, in the second millenium. Spatial constraints are less severe than the temporal ones.

Vivi VASSILOPOULOU, Ministry of Culture, Greece
"Atlantis in the eyes of a Greek"

It is a known fact that to deal with Atlantis, no matter the topic, one needs the shoulders of Atlas, and this is no play on words. This is why when I was asked to participate in the conference, I was confident in my reply that I had no paPer to present on the topic.

However, it seems that the greater the temptation, the more the number of ways one finds to succumb. I therefore found it quite easy to then recall an aspect of Atlantis that exPerts are possibly unfamiliar with, that is out of the ordinary: the artistic aspect. Atlantis in the Eyes of a Greek is the title of an exhibition that was held at the Titanium Gallery in May 2004 and which featured works by Christos Antonaropoulos. In his own special manner, the artist hauls the lost Atlantis from the bottom of the sea and reforms the sunken island, each pencil line rebuilding its “bones”, each brush stroke binding its “flesh”.

With boundaries, yet without borders, employing prose and also verse, he draws from legend and images and presents the island’s ‘history’ as it is, challenging the legendary island to emerge from the canvas. His work draws out images redolent with the oldness of the modern and the modernism of the past, like palimpsests formed over the centuries, where each layer opens a window to time. It is a voyeur and voyageur’s glance at a lost paradise, a utopia.

Jacques COLLINA-GIRARD, University Aix-Marseille I, France
"The Geology of Gibraltar Strait and the Myth of Atlantis"

At the end of the Last Glacial Maximum, when the sea level was at -135 m, the Gibraltar Strait was narrower and longer than presently. It opened on a half-enclosed sea (70km x 20 km), between the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. The largest Island (14 km) and its archipelago faced the Strait in this protected marine area, preceding the real Atlantic Ocean. The paleogeography changed at around 9400 years BC (11400 B.P.), due to the rapid sea level rise (4m/century during Meltwater Pulse 1A). More speculative is the possible contribution of tsunamis, historically and geologically attested in this very seismic area (cf. the Lisbon earthquake and the Holocene turbidites). In the same Period, prehistoric hunter-gatherers had to adapt quickly to a major environmental crisis: global warming, general flooding, and reduction of coastal territories, redistribution of hunted animal species and cultural adaptations.

This geological history curiously evokes the Egyptian tradition, starting point of the history of Atlantis in the text of Plato (400 years BC), “ Timaeus ” : an island and its archipelago drowned around 9000 years before Plato, immediately off the ""Pillars of Herakles"". Therefore, one hypothesis is that the Plato myth of “ Atlantis ” is built on a local prehistoric tradition of flooding transmitted during 5000 years to the first Egyptian scribes around 3000-4000 BC. Ethnographical examples, observations of long time conservatism in Prehistory and testimonies of the first classical texts prove that verbal traditions could record catastrophical events over a long Period. The discrepancy between the size of the island and the degree of civilisation could be interpreted in the point of view of the philosopher, illustrating his own principles, just like a novelist writes his fiction from a core of real events.

Obviously, there is a geographical and chronological correlation between the history of the real geological 'Atlantis"" of the Gibraltar Strait and the mythical story of Plato's Atlantis. Accepting the scientific value of this relationship is certainly a speculative attitude … but the coincidence seems too close to be immediately rejected.

Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy
"The Deucalion Catastrophe"

The Atlantis story and catastrophe is introduced in Plato as a much older event than the oldest catastrophe that Solon remembered, namely the Deucalion flood, which he was trying to date by counting generations, a count not given in Plato. There is a neglected statement in Orosius's STORIES AGAINST THE PAGANS that dates the Deucalion Flood, the Exodus and the invasion of India by a violent people at about the same time and attributes these events to Phaeton. In this communication we show the following:

- that the dating of Exodus at 1447 BC from internal biblical chronology is in agreement with the dating of the invasion of India by the Arians and the dating of Deucalion event by a statement in Pausanias - that Phaeton may be interpreted as a suPer Tunguska body that after complex and catastrophic interaction with our planet finally explodes in the sky over the river Eider in southern Denmark

- that the Exodus events and several migrations from northern Europe/northwest Siberia can be naturally explained within this context
- that the survival of Deucalion and the ""crossing"" of the Red Sea by Moses are easy consequences of the explosion of Phaeton.

Finally we observe that a mathematical modelling of the event is within reach of present numerical techniques and should be the core of an international project to be named PHAETON, of the greatest interest for the understanding of past catastrophes and possible future ones.

Dora KATSONOPOULOU, The Helike Project, Greece
"Helike and mythical Atlantis. An illuminating comparison"

A strong earthquake and huge seismic sea wave (tsunami) destroyed and submerged the city of Helike in Achaea in the winter of 373 BC.The city with its surrounding land and all inhabitants disappeared in one night during an unprecedented natural disaster, according to ancient sources. In a similar way, the land of mythical Atlantis was lost from the face of the earth, according to the descriptions of philosopher Plato.

In the present paPer, the author based on literary evidence as well as on recent archaeological evidence from the site of Helike, makes an attempt to illuminate the story of legendary Atlantis. To this end, the connection with Poseidon, the god of earthquakes and the sea, and patron god of both lands is examined. Also, the possible effect of Helike's natural catastrophe on Plato, a contemporary of the event, regarding the impressive description of Atlantis' disappearance is discussed.

G.M.Facchetti, Mario NEGRI & E.Notti, IULM-Istituto di Linguistica Generale e Applicata, Italy
"Atlantis: Plato's Memories of the Aegean Culture"

The focus of this study is to trace Plato’s myth back to its origins in order to attribute Atlantis to only one possible realistic location in time and space, that is to say the historical and cultural context of the Aegean. A comparative analysis of linguistic, archaeological and iconographic evidence is therefore conducted so as to recognize some distinctive features of the Minoan world which Plato seems to recall. Further clues to the Aegean ideology are also derived from an investigation of the Atlantean spatial configurations.

In the light of our current archaeological and linguistic data, the references to Atlantis given by Plato in Critias and Timaeus seem to regard the historical, political and cultural events which characterized the Aegean world. The description of an Atlantean golden age followed by a Period of decline, concomitant with violent earthquakes and floods, seems therefore to constitute the memory transfigured into a myth of the terrible eruption which took place in Thera (Santorini) around 1530 B.C. Similarly, Plato’s mention of a war between Atlantis and Athens could be related to the political and cultural clash between Minoa and Mycene.

Furthermore, Plato’s description of the island’s scenery also reflects characteristic features of the Aegean world. Atlantis is surrounded by concentric circular enclosures. Nevertheless, archaeological and architectural evidence of planned circular urban centres is scarce and mostly related to cosmological beliefs. On the other hand, the arrangement of space in Atlantis follows an archetypal pattern based on a circle-and-square dichotomy, which is widely attested in linguistic, archaeological and literary sources. More precisely, the spatial configuration described by Plato Perfectly matches a geometric dualism which can be observed in the iconography and in the shape of dwellings, sacred architecture and burial techniques of the Aegean world.

Floyd W. McCOY, University of Hawaii, USA
"Reconstructing a lost island - A preliminary depiction of Thera (Santorini) before the Late Bronze Age Eruption"

In the devastating eruption of Thera (Santorini) in the Late Bronze Age (LBA), an island that hosted a Cycladic culture was destroyed. Archaeological information suggests the island was a center of trade and religion for a prosPerous society; the Cycladians also left a record of their pre-eruption landscape in paintings and frescoes at the archaeological site of Akrotiri. Additional information on that ancient landscape is preserved in the geology of the Santorini archipelago today: relic alluvial fans, buried topographic features, paleosols, and residues of that destroyed landscape incorporated into the LBA eruption deposits. Combining archaeological and geological criteria with an understanding of the eruption dynamics and the progression of eruptive events during the explosion, a preliminary reconstruction of the LBA island just prior to its devastation is presented.

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"Continental sized sunken island or not?"

Atlantis was, according to the modern translations of Timaeus and Critias, larger than Libya (northern Africa) and Asia-minor ( Tim. 24e, Crit 108e ) and disappeared in one day and night of extensive earthquakes and floods ( Tim. 25d ). This is one of the main reasons the story is believed to have been invented by either Plato or Solon.

Plato never used the word continent ( Greek Epeiros ), but he stated that the island was larger than Libya and Asia, which makes it continental sized. Some authors argues that Plato was refering to “greater” in the sense of a Great and Powerful Civilization, mightier than Libya and Asia combined, and not larger. They claim that it was the island of the capital city, also named Atlantis, that collapsed and disappared in the catastrophe, and not the whole island. This makes the story much more credible, but was this really what Plato had in mind when he wrote the Timaeus and the Critias?

I will now show that Plato must have been refering to the whole island, not only the capital city, and that authors already 200 years after the time of Plato believed the sunken island to be continental sized.
In the end, this has other important implications.

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"Dating the catastrophe of pre-historic Athens. Evidence from Plato's Critias."

Plato wrote in the 4th century BC, when he was 52 years old, the Timaeus and Critias dialogues. In that, he describes a double catastrophe from excessive rains and an earthquake of prehistoric Athens. He also describes with many details the Acropolis of Athens and the settlements of its warriors. Archaeological excavations proved fully all these details and also illustrated the causes of the catastrophe (Bronner, 1949). The latter seems to be an earthquake which occurred in Eastern Mediterranean in the end of the Bronze Age producing an earthquake storm which lasted between 1225-1175 yr BC. The storm damaged Tiryns, Athens, Troy and a big number of other cities along major seismogenous fault lines. There is another passage again in Critias in which the consequences of the catastrophe are discussed. In that Plato discusses the survival of the Greek names up to his own Period. The identification of Greek names and the Greek language in general in the Linear B tablets proved Plato's statement as well (Carpenter, 1966). Zangger's (1991) study at Tiryns illustrated fully the catastrophe as well. This passage fully proves Plato's information in connection with prehistoric Greece during the beginning of the turbulent century. It is one positive step, in understanding the enigma of Atlantis, since the latter vanished fully later together with the victorious Greeks at some unknown yet for science time interval but not away from the 12th century BC in connection with the catastrophe of Athens. Joseph (2002) reached the same conclusion for the catastrophe of Atlantis using different arguments. Foliot (1984) reaches the same conclusion too using alternative arguments. Both place Atlantis outside Hercules's pillars in West Mediterranean.

Marc-Andre GUTSCHER, IUEM - University of Brest, France
"The Destruction of Atlantis by a great earthquake and tsunami? A geological analysis of the Spartel Bank hypothesis."

Numerous geographical similarities exist between Plato’s descriptions of Atlantis and a paleo-island (Spartel) in the Western Straits of Gibraltar. The dialogues recount a catastrophic event, which submerged the island around 11.6 ka in a single day and night, due to violent earthquakes and floods. This sudden destruction is consistent with a great earthquake (M>8.5) and tsunami, as exPerienced in the Gulf of Cadiz region in 1755, where tsunami run-up heights reached 10 m. Great earthquakes (M8-9) and tsunami occur in the Gulf of Cadiz, with a repeat time of 1500-2000 years, according to the sedimentary record. An unusually thick turbidite dated around 12 ka may coincide with the destructive event in Plato’s account. The detailed morphology of Spartel paleo-island, as determined from recently acquired high-resolution bathymetric data, is reported here. The viability of human habitation on this paleo-island at 11.6 ka is discussed on the basis of this new bathymetric map.

Diamantis PANAGIOTOPOULOS, University of Heidelberg, Germany
"The riddle of the Sea Peoples. A synopsis of the hard facts."

The Sea Peoples made their sudden appearance on the historical scene of the Eastern Mediterranean in the ‘crisis years’, towards the end of the 13th century BC. Egyptian inscriptions and reliefs record with an unusual wealth of detail their battles against pharaonic armies, yet they offer no evidence about the ‘before’ and ‘after’ of these dramatic events. The provenance and fate of these peoples mostly remain a matter of speculation. The present contribution attempts to summarize what we known and what we think we know about the Sea Peoples focusing on the few hard facts of this archaeological/historical riddle. The thin iconographic and textual evidence has to be supplemented by possible traces of these peoples in the archaeological record. The most crucial questions relevant to the problem are the following: Where did the Sea Peoples come from and why? How reliable is the Egyptian ‘official view’ of the recorded events? What happened to them after their final defeat by the Egyptian army? There can be no doubt that the Sea Peoples phenomenon is closely linked to the collapse of several political systems in the Eastern Mediterranean around the end of the 13th century BC. Yet, prior to any attempt of a historical synthesis, it is essential to know whether their appearance was the cause or rather the effect of these widespread destructions.

Spyros B. PAVLIDES, Alexandros CHATZIPETROS & Eirini Galli, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece
"Interpreting Myths: Catastrophism and New Catastrophism"

Atlantis rises in a new context provided by the construction of scientific knowledge. A major step towards this direction is an interdisciplinary approach in order to highlight the various aspects related to Atlantis speculation. The first problem however that a competent researcher has to confront is the myth itself. At this point the issue of interpreting myths emerges, in other words how to make sense of the past in the present. Notions of time and space in the past are not identical to those of our days. Moreover, invented traditions and re-use of ancient elements in new contexts often make fiction indiscernible from reality. Finally, Plato’s reference to Atlantis does not belong to the collective imaginary; he is the only one formulating this hypothesis, thus arising spontaneous criticism when considered as historical account.

The second problem lies in the need for a theoretical framework other than that of catastrophism or recently of new-catastrophism. Volcanoes and earthquakes are seen as catastrophic occurrences which can play part in mass extinction of species, shaping of landforms or even decline of civilizations. The above-mentioned scope however, does not broaden Atlantis’ horizon. Earth is in a constant state of flux. Changes in the coastline or in the direction of river-flow, high rate depositional events or slope erosion can radically alter the landscape and result in hiding traces of past cultures. Similar cases are common ground in archaeological and geomorphological research. Two examples of uncertain identification of seismic events, despite numerous historical references (Thucydides, Strabo, Pausanias, etc.) are the ones of 426 and 373 BC at northern Euboean Gulf and Helice respectively.

The use of “mythical” expression, as noted by several Plato scholars, is quite usual and consists a specific writing manner. In Plato’s work however, “myth” is distinctively contrasted to “logos”. The search of lost Atlantis is Performed in the frame of rejuvenation of the catastrophism concept in natural sciences, as “neocatastrophism”. That is, episodic ctastrophism rather than gradualism. But gradualism, known as Actualism and Uniformitarianism, is fundamental in Geology and Natural Sciences in general. Atlantis’ success stems mainly on the fact that there are no firm geological or archaeological facts for the construction of a solid argument, therefore every speculation is equally valid or invalid. Atlantis hypothesis stimulates our imagination but has to base its narration on hard data rather than authoritative tradition and memory.

Monique PETERSEN, Independent, USA
"The Search for Atlantis: Ice Cores and Mammoths."

The purpose of this paPer is to carefully examine certain passages within Plato’s account of Atlantis and determine if they can be proved scientifically. Topics include dating the catastrophic event that sunk Atlantis by examination of ice cores and other proven dating methods; an analysis if the phrase (in Greek) “Kai de kai elephanton en en autei genos pleiston”, to determine if a more precise meaning may be reached leading to the possibility Plato was describing mammoths; a study of the size of Atlantis, and what this means specifically in terms of modern landmasses of the earth; and finally, further, an examination of evidence of the catastrophic event by studying megafaunal extinctions and the implications of the layers in the soil in relation to these extinctions. Through an examination of these topics, a solution for the location of the island of Atlantis is given at the conclusion of this paPer.

Filippos TSIKALAS, University of Oslo, Norway
Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
V.V.Shuvalov, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
"The origin of the multi-ringed concentric morphology of Atlantis capitol and its relations to the Platonic scripts."

Based on Plato’s scripts in the Critias unfinished dialogue (Plato, 4th cent. B.C.) about the concentric multi-ring geomorphologic features of the capitol of Atlantis, the similarity of these features with well preserved central-peak and peak-ring impact craters (e.g. Tsikalas et al., 1999), and the Performed numerical simulations, we postulate that there is a close connection of Atlantis multi-ring morphology to meteorite impact-related processes.

Meteorite impacts are recognized to lead to geological processes involving vast amounts of energy and leading in near instantaneous increase in temPerature and pressure, structural deformation, and in redistribution of target materials (e.g. Melosh, 1989). Based on the script descriptions, we envisage that at the time of impact the regional geomorphology fits to an alluvial/estuarine coastal depositional environment with the possibility of even top-deltaic shallow water environment. The numerical simulations of a meteorite impact in such environment reproduce in a very satisfactory manner the characteristic morphological features. In particular, the elevated ~1-km-diameter Acropolis represents the structurally elevated central-high/peak surrounded by an intense deformation within a 6-8 km diameter including morphological undulations of peak-rings of land and trough-depressions eventually filled with water.

Surrounding the region of intense central deformation, simulations can reproduce a low-plain/less-deformed region reaching a 22-24 km diameter. At the same outer diameter, a circular wall was “build” by the Atlantes probably at the location of a subdued elevated final rim. Simulations have shown a possible impact-induced temPerature increase in the order of 200-300 degrees (C) in the central region and thus possible development of a hydrothermal system. The occurrence of warm springs at the elevated Acropolis, as the surface outcome of this system, strongly supports the impact hypothesis. The hydrothermal system may last for as much as 10,000 yrs if one considers cooling solely due to thermal conductivity of the target material; thermal exhaustion may actually be much faster due to water circulation at the hydrothermal system itself. This estimate can be used as an indirect constraint for the approximate time of physical impact before inhabitation.

Therefore, based on the simulations and average target material proPerties and depending on the time of Atlantis destruction, the impact time may be placed around the end of the last glaciation or most probably at post-glacial times. As a direct consequence of the meteorite impact and the developed vast shock compression pressure, compact melt bodies and disPersed melts were produced. We envisage that the white/red/black stones described in the scripts to have been used as building material by the Atlantes, may be typical impact-related polymictic breccias and suevite, i.e. brecciated matrix material mixed with coloured macroscopic in size or disPersed impact-generated melts. Indeed at the location of some impact craters, black, red and white colour stones are found, believed to result from the pre-existing local target lithology and the impact itself. Impactitic stones have been used during Roman times in France as building material and in medieval times in Germany. Such colours of building material, without being impactites, have been used in the 24th century B.C. Egypt. This means that at least one group of prehistoric people not described by Herodotus used this exact colours for building purposes as Plato described.

Furthermore, a typical feature of several shallow-marine target impacts (e.g. 40-km-diameter Mjølnir crater, Tsikalas and Faleide, 2004; 14-km-diameter Lockne crater, von Dalwigk and Ormö, 2001; 20-km-diameter Kamensk crater, Movshovich and Milyavsky, 1990; and 4-km-diameter Kärdla crater, Puura and Suuroja, 1992) is the occurrence of near concentric erosional/depositional resurge gullies acting as inlets of water and material flow back to the crater site during the final modification cratering stages. The gullies result due to a shallow-water cover on top of the target and/or facilitated by pre-existing fracture systems. We postulate that the concentric communication channels/ploughs at Atlantis were not necessarily ideally symmetric, as described by Plato, and we relate them to impact generated resurge gullies.

Jonas BERGMAN, Independent, Sweden
"Atlantis in Morocco."

Atlantis was, according to Plato, located in front of the Pillars of Heracles ( the straits of Gibraltar ) ( Tim. 24e ). The first born child of the Atlantean god Poseidon was named Atlas and received the island of Atlantis as his lot. The second born child was named Gadeirus, and received as his lot the country facing Gadeira ( Crit. 114b ), an ancient Phoenician town and region in southern Spain. The capital city of Atlantis was located in a river delta surrounded by large plains and mountains ( Crit. 118a ). The only possible locations is the plains of Andalusia in southern Spain and the plains of Morocco. I have investigated the geography, the myths and the nature of Morocco in comparison with Plato's Atlantis.

Vasilios KAPSIMALIS, Peter Pavlakis, Dimitrios Filippas & Christos Anagnostou, Hellenic Centre for Marine Research, Greece
"The Cyclades Plateau (Aegean Sea): a lost Atlantis."

As recounted by Plato, Atlantis was an extended island, sunk after violent earthquakes and surges, some 11.5 kyr BP. This natural catastrophe was associated with the disappearance of a high-level civilization. In this context, the Cyclades archipelagos located in the central Aegean Sea can be assumed as “Atlantis” too. Our contribution, based on existing bathymetric, geophysical and sedimentary data, studies the geomorphological evolution of the Cyclades complex, since the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) (ca. 18-20 kyr BP). A GIS is used to reveal the morphometric characteristics and paleo-geographic changes of the area. In addition, certain prehistoric evidence of human activities is considered, for apprehending the influence of the early Cycladic culture upon the eastern Mediterranean.

The Cyclades is a shallow structural elevation (plateau), comprising many mountainous islands. The area is regarded as an almost aseismic region, surrounded however by zones of high seismic and volcanic activity. During the LGM, the Cyclades was exposed as an extended island continuum, covering an area of about 7000 km2. During the last transgression, seawater flooded progressively the plateau; hence a significant bridge of human movement disappeared.
However, Melian obsidian found in the Greek Mainland and other Mediterranean regions reveals that navigation and trade were common human activities, as early as the Mesolithic Period. When the sea level reached its present position (ca. 6 kyr BP), the Cyclades had already lost some 75% of its initial land. At that time, the oldest known Neolithic settlement in the Cyclades was established in a small rocky islet (Saliagos), located between the Paros and Antiparos Islands. This settlement was probably inhabited by uphill moved human groups that forced by the sea level rise. Nowadays, coarse-grained sediments of high carbonate content cover the seabed, forming a variety of subaqueous bedforms, such as sand dunes, ribbons and ripples.

Axel HAUSMANN, Technical University of Aachen, Germany
"Atlantis - extincted on the Plateau of Malta. An ancient civilisation at the transition from Neolithics to the Bronze Age."

In the 4th millennium B.C. a powerful civilization developed in a Plane of the Plateau of Malta in the south east of Sicily. Here for the first time people differentiated their society into castes of priests, warriors, craftsmen and farmers and created writing and calculating with numbers. They invented agriculture with artificial watering, developed metallurgy and the rectangular brick for building as well as shipbuilding. Due to military suPeriority they succeeded in dominating also the neighbouring islands of Corsica and Sardinia and also the surrounding costal areas in Northern Africa and Western Europe.

At about 3500 B.C. the Neolithic empire Perished as a consequence of earthquakes and tsunamis within one day followed by a significant rising of the sea level in the Mediterranean. However, not all inhabitants got drowned, as some of them were able to escape with their boats eastwards. They landed in the plane of Messara in southern Crete, in Egypt and Syria, from were they moved forward towards Mesopotamia. Being suPerior to the autochthon population by means of technology and military power the refugees founded new settlements, which later became the nuclei for the civilizations of pre-dynastic Egypt, pre-minoan Crete and Sumer.

It will be shown, that all aspects concerning Atlantis in the dialogues of Plato conform to archaeological findings of the late Neolithic civilization described. The timetable and dimensions of Plato's "Atlantis" agree with reality if they are converted in early Egyptian measures. The same holds for the exact localization of the island of Atlantis in a subtropical climate, which at that time prevailed in the Mediterranean.
A geophysical hypothesis will be given explaining the cause of the destruction of "Atlantis".

Emilio SPEDICATO, University of Bergamo, Italy
"Atlantis in Quisqueya"

In this comminication we argue that the time set by Plato for the destruction of the civilization of Atlantis, circa 9500 BC, can be accepted, being compatible with the rather abrupt end of the last great glaciation. The cause of the event was probably of extraterrestrial nature and we briefly discuss two possibilities: an oceanic impact of a large object or, more probably and within the context of the Velikovsky-Ackerman theory of great changes within the solar system in the few millennia before circa 700 BC, the close passage of a planet-size object.

After giving reasons why a civilization could develop during the last Ice Age we consider the geographical data given by Plato about the location of the capital city of the Atlantis dominion. We show that the island called by the natives QUISQUEYA, i.d. MOTHER OF LANDS, and by Columbus Hispaniola, fits very well the Platonic data, apart form a couple of changes that are easily explained by inexact transmission of information by Critias junior.

The information on Atlantis must have survived mainly in the area of the high mountains of Africa, especially if the cause of the event was the second of the two suggested possibilities.

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"Plato's geographical errors."

Atlantis has always been looked for based on antecedents provided by Solon and Plato, who ignored the real history of its civilization. Because of this, they committed serious geographical errors which rendered impossible to identify the real location of the mythical island until now.

The greatest mistake was to ignore the existence of the Red Sea, as it is established by Anaximander of Miletus, (610-545 B.C.), which drove Solon to place the island as being West of the Mediterranean, since the land was described as "beyond the Straits", and the only straits that he knew, were Messina (Sicily) and Heracles (present Gibraltar). By he not knowing about the Red Sea, he did not know of Bab el-Mandeb, Eilat and Suez. The second big mistake, based on the previous one, was to change names of places and Persons in the Egyptian history. Most importantly, the one that defined the position of Atlantis, made by exchanging the name of "Punt" - Somalia - for "Tyrrhenia" - Italy and North Africa -. This error was based on the presence of the Tyrrheans or Phoenicians or Puonis in Tyrrhenia, which are the same people that had formerly inhabited the Punt. This led to the translation of the name of the territory facing to Punt, Arabia, for Europe, and that in turn, led them to change the name of the Strait of Bab el-Mandeb for Messina, and the Straits of Eilat and Suez for the Pillars of Hercules, or vice versa, indicating that this civilization had dominated Europe, when the Egyptian history was talking about Arabia.

The third great platonic mistake was to locate the island in the Atlantic Ocean. The ancient name of this sea was Okeano, until Herodotus of Halicarnassus, (484-425 B.C.) gave it its new name. It is therefore, impossible to assume that the name had been established by the Egyptians or even by Solon. It is quite evident that it was Plato who gave it the name, thereby erroneously placing the Atlantis there.

Fotis TSAKOPOULOS, University of Athens, Greece
"An archaeological concept of the mythical conflict between Atlantis and Prehistoric Athenians."

The Greek archaeologist Nikolaos Platon, in his book "Zakros. The New Minoan Palace", reports the unexpected pause in the narration of the Critias dialogue. This takes place before the beginning of the war between the naval power of Atlantis and the political and military might of the Athenians The reason for the conflict was the arrogance of Atlantis, which gave the ivris (ýâñéò). The same ivris was seen in the myth of Minotavros. The ivris will constrain the Athenian king Thisseus to march against Minoan Crete. According to the ancient Greeks ivris always brings nemessis (íÝìåóéò), which finally brings catharsis (êÜèáñóéò). In this case, one myth completes the other. Many scientists agree that the kernel (the key) to the myth of Atlantis is Minoan naval power. The question is did Athens have the power to oppose Atlantis and then to conquer her? What evidence is there in the excavation data about this?

Jaime MANUSCHEVICH, University of Chile, Chile
"The sea sank."

A great difficulty to decipher the Atlantis myth is the understanding of platonic texts. One of them indicates that "after wards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean. (109)". One occurs generally by fact that the sunk thing is the land, nevertheless, in story lays for another direction: the desiccating of the sea. Under my theory, that Israel or Canaan was the Atlantis, this is easier to understand, because I indicate that he was exactly that what it happened, that is to say, that the sea sank, lowering his level. The desertification of the region, many other geologic data of the zone, the separation of the Dead Sea of the Mediterranean and the Red Sea and the distance of the coasts of several old cities (Ur, Ugarit, and Jericho) therefore indicate it.

Today science can prove it. A work made in Colombia, call "Quaternary Variations of the Level of the Sea and Their Implications in Coast Risk of the Colombian Caribbean ", of 1997, concludes that the sea had a height suPerior in 2 to 3 meters at the present level makes about 2400 years A.P. Another investigation "Messages of the Past Written in the Sand", of April of the 2002, made by the University of Haifa and the Argentine Antarctic Institute, indicates that "the global height of the sea reached its present value 5.000-6.000 years ago" and "that during a lapse near 2,000 years (between 8,400 and 6,400 years before the present) it happened an important reduction of the level of the sea, that is considered in about 25 ms." For other part, Kurt Lambeck and J. Chappell, (SCIENCE) indicate that in Angerman, in the last 9000 years, the level of the water lowered 200 meters.
In conclusion, the sea lowered, flooding the region.

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"The differences between myth & fiction and myth & fact”

In ancient texts we read occasionally about fictions, myths and historical facts. The first category contains fictitious elements in the Periphery and the center of a story which is presented for paedagogic purposes. The second category contains fictitious elements in the Periphery but not in the center of a story which is a real event. This second category is divided in two sub-divisions. The first sub-division originates from direct observation of an evolving natural event not understood by the observer. The second sub-division is the description of a natural past event by the observer who adds interpretive fictitious elements attempting to interpret it. The full fictions reflect the psychological necessities of the humanity to build up “ stories “ and is a domain of the psychological sciences. However, both sub-divisions of the second category belong in the world of the physical sciences and their nucleus can be tested by the physical sciences after the removal of the fictitious Periphery. The third category is the historical fact which is tackled by history as it was defined methodologically better than Herodotus by the brilliant Thucydides. Both types of genuine myths contain the memories or interpretations of the phaenomena of non-literal part of the humanity of the last 50,000 years. They remained in oral traditions with the assistance of some sort of rhythm up to the time of writing. Some of them also remained as signs or pictures. They are time capsules of exceptional interest waiting to be decoded.

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS & Chara COSEYAN, University of Patras, Greece
"Ritual Capture and Sacrifice of the Bull at Atlantis. Are there any parallels?"

Plato in his dialogue Kritias describes a ceremonial capture of bulls already in capti-vity in Poseidon’s royal quarters with the assistance of a catchment device (âñü÷ïò). Initially such a catchment device was taken to be the laso which have been used by the Egyptian at all epochs as sign of vitality of the practitioners Pharaohs and other high standing servants. However, the linguistic analysis of the vrochos (in Greek) leads to morotton (ìüñïôôïí) which is protoeuropean and means a type of a particular net associated with the bull since it is called taureia (ôáõñåßá) by Esychios. It is also found associated with the word meregh used in Illyria (Albania). In Russian the word merega means a bag made from a net. Archaeological evidence illustrate bulls with wheels of 16-15th B.C. found at Psira island in Crete with a “decorative” net around the body of the animals, a possible memory of the capture of them. The Vapheio golden cups found in Peloponnesus of 15th B.C. do illustrate bulls captured by a net not necessarily the taureia meant by Esychios. The argument of the Atlantis analysts that Plato saw the laso as an art theme in Egypt, in a trip mentioned by Plutarch, is therefore removed since the meaning of the word is different in Greek. The story originates from Egypt due to Solon who visited it in the 6th B.C. but the nucleus of the bull ritual originates outside of Egypt. The capture has nothing to do with the leaping over the bull which the prehistoric Cretans were practised in the Aegean and Africa. The killing of the bull has nothing to do with the ritual sacrifice which the prehistoric and historic Greeks were practised through the aeons and similarly with Egypt. There is remarkable similarity with sacrifice of the bull in Troy in Roman times ! So far no other archaeological evidence exists round the world to demonstrate something like that. There is however a very strange ritual of the “ Atlantes ”, dressed in blue clothes, drinking an unknown liquid in a golden cup in which bull’s blood was added. The only place in the world in which a similar practice was exercised is the circular lake Guatavita in Guatemala in South America. The Indian who is going to be appointed chief is painted first with resin and then is covered fully with gold dust. As he shines in the sun dives in the water leaving behind him a golden stream. When he reaches the other side the priests covered him with a blue cloth. As the ritual reaches the culmination, the crowd watching the ritual bursts emotionally and starts to throw golden objects into the lake ! Semiotically the points of the parallels are many turning the interest to South America since the circular lake is understood by the Indians to be made by a golden meteoritic body ! The bull’s red clot of blood dropping in the “ circular “ golden cup is a micrograph of the falling of a meteoritic body and a very strong parallel of what the “Atlantes “ were practising believed Poseidon produced in their circular lake too. The blue ceremonial dress of the chieftains Atlantes and the Indian chieftain in both cases in connection with the circular lake is an exact and remarkable similarity.

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
Niki DRIVALIARI, University of the Aegean, Greece
Chara COSEYAN, University of Patras, Greece
"Erytheia as 'Atlantis'. A case prior to Plato"

Hesiod (Çóßïäïò) describing the legendary island of Erytheia (Åñõèåßá) surrounded by the Ocean in which an airborn Chryssaor (×ñõóÜùñ), whose name means golden sword, the son of Poseidon (Ðïóåéäþí) and Medousa (ÌÝäïõóá) came in erotic contact with the daughter of the ïcean Kalerroe (Êáëëéññüç) and produced the three head Gerion (Ãçñéüíçò). Hesiod involves the hero of the Achaeans Heracles (ÇñáêëÞò) who reaches Erytheia by sea with the assistance of the Sun’s golden depas (äÝðáò). Although we do not know the exact function and meaning of the golden depas, it assisted Heracles to find Erytheia in the sea. On Erytheia, in spite of the assistance, given to Gerion by the “dog “ Orthos (¼ñèïò) and the shepherd Eurytion (Åõñéôßùí), Heracles managed to get the bulls, and killed Gerion in conflict. On the place of his tomb, as later ancient Greek writers mention, a tree grew and due to sorrow from Gerion’s death produced red tears. This is a typical myth which requires stepwise analysis. In its center some true facts exist . The latter are the following. The red island, since Erytheia means red, surrounded by the ocean. The contact of the Achaeans by sea. The occupants of the island and the environment of bulls and sheep. In the Periphery of the myth there are inventions because the non-literal visitors Achaeans could not comprehend, this new for them, exotic environment. Poseidon who is directly involved in an erotic contact with Cleito in Plato’s “ Atlantis “ now in Hesiod, “ becomes ” his son Chryssaor who does exactly the same act. He has a similar contact with Kalerroe on an island in the ocean. In Plato’s version Poseidon produces three concentric circles after the “meeting ” with the woman. In Hesiod Chryssaor produces the three “ heads “ Gyrion after the meeting with the woman. We set, a new working hypothesis. It is known that Gyrion means linguistically weeping.. At the present time we are not in a position to demonstrate if the three heads were one within the others, with other words concentrically, or individually and separately placed. However, we point the presence of bulls at Erytheia, a typical fertility symbol and the erotic act of Chryssaor. We note that the symbol of the three concentric circles together with the bulls and a volcanic crater appear as a fertility symbol in Tsatal Hujuk in Turkey even from Neolithic times. With other words the same three concentric circles as in Plato’s case and the erotic act of Poseidon. The case of Chryssaor’s Performance does not mean that people were present during its activity. It means that the prehistoric non-literal people interpreted much later the unusual site of an island with a preexisting crater when they visited the particular environment. The Heracles / Gyrion battle is an interpretive myth, illustrating with non-literal description, an island somewhere with a crater. There is a partial parallel. It is the battle between Poseidon / Polyvotis. It leads us to the description of another island with an interpretive myth of non-literal people. The island of Nisyros with the known volcanic crater in the Aegean. The bulls appear, as in Erytheia, hidden in the name of Polyvotis, the warrior son of the earth, whose name means many bulls. It seems, we have almost equalization between the two myths presented by Hesiod and Plato respectively. The orthos “ dog “, whose name means upright, is the impassable of the site and therefore the structure’s protector with other words Gerion’s. It is an exact parallel to the impassable of the structure which Poseidon produced in Plato’s Atlantis. In Hesiod’s case, except of the impassable, the threatening voice of the orthos “dog ” is added. We interpret this as the threatening noise of the seismic activity of the site. The “ red tears ” of the tree which grew in the position of Gerion’s tomb has particular interest since it leads us where “ Atlantis ” was located. Such trees exist out side of the Mediterranean and produce red resin. The red resin is called Dragon’s blood. The names of these plants are Calamus draco, Draconis resina and Sanquis draconis. Such a plants are distributed today in Africa, Indonesia, India, Malaysia (Daemonorops), Vietnam, Cambodia (Dracaena). The folk names in various counties are : Blood, Blume, Calamus Draco, Draconis, Resina, Sanguis Draconis, Dragon’s Blood Palm. It was known to ancient Greeks, Romans, and Arabs to have medicinal proPerties. The ancient Greek writer Discouridis described it. Mariners of the 15th century A.D. found it in the Canaries. The exotic tree Dracena Draco is a native to the Canary islands, Madeira, the Cape Verde Islands, and the Atlas mountains in Marocco. The natives of these regions harvested the resin for mummification procedures. In spite of the fact that Hesiod does not locate his Erytheia in a way to understand its position and inspite of the fact that other authors such as Stesichoros and Pindar locate it close to the peninsula of Cadiz and Guadalkivir river in Andalusia. We propose that Hesiod’s Erytheia with the previously assumed by us characteristics, as we interpret his text, does not fit with the present day island existing close to Cadiz. If Erytheia is indeed “ Atlantis ” then we should look for it in the places in which the tree with red resin existed in 1200 yr B.C. as the present analysis leads us. “ Atlantis ” was lost due to a very strong earthquake and a consequent giant landslide. It was the last tragic spasm of the seismic storm which acted between 1225 and 1175 yr B.C. along the main contact of the lithospheric plates of Africa and Eurasia and along the Peripheral faults in East and West Mediterranean and destroyed partly prehistoric Troy, Tiryns and Athens and many other prehistoric cities and totally Hesiod’s 7th century B.C. Erytheia, or Hellanicus 5th century B.C. Atlantias, or Plato’s 4th century B.C. Atlantis.

Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece
"Atlantis: Review of some little known references"

This paPer presents a commentary of neoplatonist Proclus on the existence of Atlantis, the Oera Linda Book on the destruction of Atlantis and the Flem-Ath theory linking Atlantis to Antarctica. The Oera Linda Book is the published version of on an ancient Friesian manuscript found in Netherlands, reporting the destruction by floods and cataclysms of a landmass, known as Atland. The Flem-Ath theory draws evidence from four sources for support: the Kircher map from alleged Egyptian sources, placing Atlantis to the South Atlantic, the similarity of Kircher's map to ice-free Antartica, the notion that Atlantis lies under the Antarctica ice cap and the Crust Displacement Theory explaining how Kircher's Atlantis found its way from the hospitable temPerate South Atlantic to the inhospitable frozen South Pole.

Stavros PAPAMARINOPOULOS, University of Patras, Greece
"Plato's Phaethon and Homer's Phaethousa. Cometary Fragments in the 12th Century B.C."

Plato, in Timaeos, describes the story of the inadequate son of the sun who mimics his father and calls him Phaethon (visible). The latter burns the earth. Plato refuses the element of the myth in this story. The definition of the phaenomenon by Plato is very close to the modern astronomical understanding of a comet. The association of the comet with the 12th century B.C. originates with the proved catastrophe marked in Athens by an earthquake and excessive rain mentioned by Plato at Critias. Homer describes allegorically the appearance of a comet as the shining flying goddess Athena coming from the west to the Troad. He also calls the female and male presentation of the comet as Phaethousa and Phaethon respectively. In fact he presents them together with another flying entity called Lambetia and Lampos meaning (shining) as female and male respectively. He also describes allegorically the comet in two instances. The first is the battle of a red dragon with a white eagle and the second is the battle of Athena throwing a stone in the “ neck ” of god Aris during the combat between Greeks and Trojans. The female and male appearance of the celestial phaenomenon is an optical illusion seeing by the same people just minutes before sunset and immediately after dawn. Kobres (1992,1995) in his innovative studies about the Phaethon’s ride collected all possible myths round the world corresponding about the 12th century B.C. and made a mathematical simulation of the possible trajectory of the comet approaching earth. The later for few hours was admired by priest observers from different latitudes of different cultures in the same century as it was interacting with the atmosphere. In order to prove physically the existence of Phaethon’s effect, on some area of the planet, one needs to collect samples from studied stratigraphies in which the horizon of the 12th century B.C. belongs outside of burnt palaces. If a burnt horizon exists in past forests then one could not count it as the result of the action of an earthquake or even of accidental fires. The scale of the burnt palaces and the absence of attacking warriors in the East Mediterranean in the 12th century B.C., except Troy’s case, could not be interpreted as accidental fires. It seems that both writers Homer and Plato describe a complementary view of the 12th century B.C. from different angles.The collapse of the late Bronze Age kingdoms in East Mediterranean is the result of the earthquake storm, of Phaethon and of the Sea People. There is not change in the climate in the East Mediterranean as Carpenter (1966) had theorized, but uneven disturbances during Phaethon’s ride which introduced short but severe hardships in the economies of the suffered countries. Baillie and Munro (1988) found an anomalous tree ring precipitation change in the 12th century B.C. in Irish trees. Hodell (1991) found a mark of drought in the climate of the Caribbean in the same century. Both studies illustrate the complexity and the bipolarity of the effect of the comet as it interacted with the Earth without crashing on it. The request for details studies in climatic Perturbation in the 12th century B.C. is a necessity. The vanished Atlantis belongs in that unique in violence of nature and of people century.

Rosario VIENI, Former High School History Professor, Italy
"11,500 years ago."

The Columns of Hercules, Odysseus, Taboo, and the ancient dream of man.For us today the extreme border is represented by the cosmos... our ancestors however believed this border to be found in the waves of Ossidiana near the extremity of this western sea: an unknown sea at that time.For the Greeks the first border was represented by the Bosporus (cfr. the myth of Giasone); then Sicily (cfr. the Odyssey of the first navigators); and finally the central part of the Mediterranean Sea.At the end of the glacial Period of the Wurmiano, the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea was separate from the western part. There were two enormous basins of water whose levels were, however, different: the lower level was at least 150 meters.And the coasts of the emerged earths were nearer to each other, nearer than they are now.

Diamantis PASTRAS, Atenfoods, Australia
"Final solution to the question of Atlantis"

The site of atlantis was situated,at what today are the remains of the Cyclades and Astipalea,with its sister island of what is today called Crete(it had a different name 3500 years ago,seeing that the ancient egyptians beleived that crete sunk into the sea,it cannot have been the crete of today).There is an ancient egyptian map(from the egyptian book of the dead) in the british museum over 3500 years it consists of two islands on of which is disected by a river 1000(plethera-should be stades)200km fits the area of the cyclades and astipalaea Perfectly,you can also suPer impose the egyptian map over this area, it fits almost Perfect to scale.

Zdenek KUKAL, Czech Geological Survey, Czech Republic
"Atlantis problem - never ending conlict between Science & Fiction"

Recently published views on possible location of Plat´s Artlantis (Strait of Gibraltar, Cyprus, Troy, Egypt, Black Sea floor, Spain) have rejuvenated the problem of Atlantis.Principal question is as follows: Do we search for real Plato´s Atlantis, as described in his dialogues Timaios and Kritias, or for any lost unknown civilization ? Irt is clear that most of authors do not adher to the exact Plato´s description which includes:a) Plato asserts that an advanced civilization existed on the island of Atlantis.b) Plato described the size, landforms, architecture, and military strength of the Atlanrtis.c) Plato specified, but very vaguely, the Atlantis location.d) Plato described also social order and system of government in the Atlantis.e) Plato descibed also the destruction of this civilization but only in general.Taking into account all these pieces of information, it follows that the Plato´s Atlantis is a pure fiction. Additional problem arises what was Plato´s objective in mind and which echoes of Plato´s own time and immediate past his description mirrors.Geological constraints are of primary importance in searching for any traces of lost ancient civilization. So, all the possible natural catastrophes have to be analysed, as volcanic eruptions, tectonic movements, seismicity, tsunamis, catastrophic sedimentation, asteroiid impacts, etc , which could have caused the desctruction of ancient civilizaion or part of it. The NMediterranean Sea sis a good candidate for discovering of some ancient monuments that were destroyed "in a single day and night of misfortune".

Anthony KONTARATOS, Independent, Greece
"Atlantis: Fact or Fiction?"

Plato’s story is examined from a reliability point of view. He is repeating in his two dialogues twenty two times that his story is true. The archaeological evidence, however, is negative on all counts. Three mechanisms can be identified that can give rise to the geomorphology described. As to the whereabouts of Atlantis ten criteria are proposed to help identify its resting site. None of the sites suggested fulfills all ten criteria in the past and the present.

Enlaces:
http://milos.conferences.gr/
http://milos.conferences.gr/?atlantis2005
http://milos.conferences.gr/uploads/media/Conference_Programme.pdf

(Por gentileza de José Luis Santos Fernández, www.terraeantiqvae.com)

Noticia del 15 de agosto de 2005: La Atlántida en la Isla de Espartel, y por un tsunami

Fuente: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4153008.stm
Last Updated: Monday, 15 August 2005, 13:47 GMT 14:47 UK

Tsunami clue to 'Atlantis' found

A submerged island that could be the source of the Atlantis myth was hit by a large earthquake and tsunami 12,000 years ago, a geologist has discovered.

Spartel Island now lies 60m under the sea in the Straits of Gibraltar, but some think it once lay above water.

The finding adds weight to a hypothesis that the island could have inspired the legend recounted by the philosopher Plato more than 2,000 years ago.

Evidence comes from a seafloor survey published in the journal Geology.

Marc-André Gutscher of the University of Western Brittany in Plouzané, France, found a coarse-grained sedimentary deposit that is 50-120cm thick and could have been left behind after a tsunami.

Shaken sediments

Dr Gutscher said that the destruction described by Plato is consistent with a great earthquake and tsunami similar to the one that devastated the city of Lisbon in Portugal in 1755, generating waves with heights of up to 10m.

The thick "turbidite" deposit results from sediments that have been shaken up by underwater geological upheavals.

It was found to date to around 12,000 years ago - roughly the age indicated by Plato for the destruction of Atlantis, Dr Gutscher reports in Geology.

Spartel Island, in the Gulf of Cadiz, was proposed as a candidate for the origin of the Atlantis legend in 2001 by French geologist Jacques Collina-Girard.

It is "in front of the Pillars of Hercules", or the Straits of Gibraltar, as Plato described. The philosopher said the fabled island civilisation had been destroyed in a single day and night, disappearing below the sea.

Sedimentary records reveal that events like the 1755 Lisbon earthquake occur every 1,500 to 2,000 years in the Gulf of Cadiz.

But the mapping of the island carried out by Dr Gutscher failed to turn up any manmade structures and also showed that the island was much smaller than previously believed.

This could make it less likely that the island was inhabited by a civilisation.

(Gentileza de Graça Cravinho, vía Archport)
............................

LAS 24 CONDICIONES QUE DEBE CUMPLIR UN LUGAR CANDIDATO A SER LA PerDIDA ATLÁNTIDA, A PARTIR, EXCLUSIVAMENTE, DE LOS TEXTOS DE PLATÓN

Atlantis: If, when and where?

Scientists and researchers from 15 countries gathered on Milos Island from 11th to 13th July in order to exchange their ideas and opinions about Atlantis. During the Conference �The Atlantis Hypothesis � Searching for a Lost Land�, specialists in the field of archaeology, geology, volcanology and other sciences presented and substantiated their views regarding the place where Atlantis existed, the time when it was destroyed and the causes of its destruction, whilst a number of people expressed their doubts as to whether it actually existed.

Based on the accounts of Plato, the conference participants agreed on the following 24 criteria, which a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed:

1. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been located where an island used to be and where parts of it may still exist.
2. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have had a most distinct geomorphology composed of alternating concentric rings of land and water.
3. The Atlantis should have been located outside the Pillars of Hercules.
4. The Metropolis of Atlantis was greater than Libya and Anatolia and Middle East and Sinai (combined).
5. Atlantis must have sheltered a literate population with metallurgical and navigational skills.
6. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have been routinely reachable from Athens by sea.
7. At the time, Atlantis should have been at war with Athens.
8. The Metropolis of Athens must have suffered a devastating physical destruction of unprecedented proportions.
9. The Metropolis of Atlantis should have sunk entirely or partly below the water.
10. The Metropolis of Atlantis was destroyed 9000 Egyptian years before the 6th century B.C.
11. The part of Atlantis was 50 stadia (7,5 km) from the city.
12. Atlantis had a high population density, enough to support a large army (10,000 chariots, 1,200 ships, 1,200,000 hoplites)
13. The region of Atlantis involved the sacrifice of bulls.
14. The destruction of Atlantis was accompanied by an earthquake.
15. After the destruction of Atlantis, the passage of ships was blocked.
16. Elephants were present in Atlantis.
17. No physically or geologically impossible processes were involved in the destruction of Atlantis.
18. Hot and cold springs, with mineral deposits, were present in Atlantis.
19. Atlantis lay on a coastal plain 2000 X 3000 stadia surrounded by mountains falling into the sea.
20. Atlantis controlled other states of the Period.
21. Winds in Atlantis came from the north (only in Northern hemisphere)
22. The rocks in Atlantis were of various colors: black, white, and red.
23. There were canals for irrigation in Atlantis.
24. Every 5th and 6th year, they sacrificed bulls.


In response to the above criteria, some views doubting the existence of Atlantis were also presented. The main representative of such doubt was Professor Christos Doumas, Director of Akrotiri Excavations in Santorini and member of the Scientific Committee of the Conference, who supported the theory that the existence of Atlantis is a myth and its pursuit a utopia.

�The same conference will be organised again in three years in order to establish what progress has been made in research about the Lost Land and it will probably be then that the scientific community will be ready to bring to light the secret of Atlantis�, stated Mr. Kostas Konstantinidis, Managing Director of Heliotopos Conferences, who also had the original idea of the conference.

The Atlantis Book Exhibition that took place alongside the conference was of particular interest. During the exhibition 50 books and magazines about the Lost Atlantis, Greek and foreign, old and new publications, were presented. The book exhibition was coordinated by Mr. Manolis Lignos, founder of the Folklore Museum of Santorini.

The conference was organised within the framework of Milos Conferences and was supported by the Milos Conference Centre and S&B Industrial Minerals S.A.

The eagerly awaited Conference Proceedings will include all of the presentations and will be the first book about Atlantis to contain such a wide range of views and approaches to the Atlantis hypothesis. The book will be published within a few months and will be available at the electronic bookshop at www.conferences.gr

Fuente: http://milos.conferences.gr/index.php?id=2964


Más informacióen en: http://varias, citadas en el cuerpo del artículo


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  1. #51 Enkur 04 de ene. 2006

    Varyean

    Si no estas conforme con lo dicho por P. Sanders, no tienes más que razonar un minimo de educación. Pero no. Es más fácil descalificar y ridiculizar a todos los vascos porque alguien haya dado una teoría que no tiene ninguna base. Podrías tomar ejemplo de Brigantinus. En fin. Que no soy nadie para decirte como expresar tus opiniones (o insultos), Pero te lo digo porque me he sentido ofendido por tus palabras que no vienen a cuento.

    Muchas gracias

    Salud

  2. #52 A.M.Canto 04 de ene. 2006

    Quién sabe. Tiene a su favor algunos autores antiguos, Pero el más fuerte Dicearco, fl. hacia 300 a.C., natural de Messina y alumno de Aristóteles, un potente cartógrafo (aunque apenas conservamos cosas de él), que da distancias para las Columnas que no coinciden con Gibraltar, pues dice que ellas están más cercanas a Grecia que el límite del Adriático...

    Si tiene paciencia, Brigantinus, aquí tiene una serie de 7 artículos de Frau, de abril de 2002, en "La Repubblica" (debe de ser una suerte ser de los fundadores de un diario semejante para propagar las propias ideas): http://www.repubblica.it/online/cultura_scienze/colonne/colonne/colonne.html. Por aquí y por allá encontrará las referencias que da. No es nada aburrido de leer, menos mal.

  3. #53 A.M.Canto 04 de ene. 2006

    Muy curiosa de leer es la entrevista que el Periodista le hace a Estrabón: http://www.repubblica.it/online/cultura_scienze/colonne/colonnedue/colonnedue.html

    Para mí el principal inconveniente que tiene su teoría (aunque tampoco he leído el libro, Pero sí bastante de la web) es que cualquiera podía comprobar que, si seguía navegando más allá de Cerdeña, había mucha más tierra a ambos lados, y de frente se topaba las Baleares. Vamos, que no era "el fin del mundo conocido" ni mucho menos, como sí lo suponía el estrecho de Gibraltar, tras el cual se abandonaba un recogidito y más sosegado mar para salir a un océano abierto cuyo final sí que no se conocía, y donde no se podía uno arriesgar a dejar el cabotaje. Y eso lo sabrían (vamos a olvidar ahora a Hércules, Ulises, Teucro y demás) los navegantes desde tiempo inmemorial.

  4. #54 Varyean 04 de ene. 2006

    -Enkur: Perdona Pero las palabras no son mías, solo las recordaba. En otro aspecto yo no ridiculizo a los Vascos con esto, si no que muchas cosas que ponen en los textos las han dicho Vascos, por ejemplo lo de Altamira, date un paseo por los comentarios y lo veras. Y no se si habrás leído el articulo de la pagina de P. Sanders,

    http://www.mundomisterioso.com/article.php?sid=1284


    en el cual dice que los Vascos son los descendientes de los Atlantes, no digo nada y lo digo todo, ya tiene una cultura respetada internacionalmente (no tanto nacionalmente) para que quieren mas.
    Si te has sentido ofendido lo siento Pero al caso yo no lo tomaría como un insulto, solo he colgado un comentario que si ridiculiza ha esos Vascos que creen semejantes cosas, es cosa tuya sentirte ofendido, Pero lo mismo que hay Vascos incoherentes también les hay en el resto de la península. Siento que te hallas sentido ofendido.




    -Brigantinus: El Oricalco si existe es una aleación de Zinc, Cobre y/o Plomo, Y se ha encontrado en los Andes, en Bolivia y Perú, el nombre no ha sido impuesto recientemente, sino que ya lo conocían los indígenas de dicha zona.

  5. #55 rcg873 04 de ene. 2006

    La atlántida no se puede encontrar en el mediterráneo, es que lo dice su nombre "Atlántida" (oceano atlántico), y las columnas de hércules frente a las costas de Cádiz, en la parte atlántica del sur penínsular español. Además recientemente se han descubierto galerías submarianas frente a las costas gaditanas, hechas por la mano del hombre, todo esto es sorprendente y parece que no tiene la más mínima importancia. Además sabemos de la existencia por esa zona de una civilización muy avanzada y envidia de todos los pueblos con los que comerciaba, llamada Tartesos, de la que Platón escribe que tenían un rey llamado Argantonio que vivió 120 años (otra pista), el nombre de por sí sólo suscita muchas dudas y preguntas; sería un nombre griego? al parecer el prefijo "Arg"podría proceder de una lengua llamada "antiguo europeo", lengua indoeuropea, que al parecer no tiene relación directa con las lenguas celtíberas, esta lengua sería la primera en llegar a la península, mucho antes de la llegada de los celtas a la península, tenemos muchos topónimos penínsulares esparcidos de norte a sur de esta lengua. La cultura Argárica está relacionada con esta lengua, y sabemos que también con los tartesos, yo no digo más, Pero pistas hay muchas, además está lo poco que sabemos del suroeste español en todas estas épocas, es la zona donde más dudas arqueológicas existen.

  6. #56 Brigantinus 04 de ene. 2006

    Varyean, no dudo que ese mineral ya fuera conocido por los indígenas. Pero es evidente que el nombre de oricalco se lo han impuesto los occidentales, tomando como referencia, el misterioso y enigmático mineral que menciona Platón. El nombre es griego: oreikhalkos (cobre de las montañas) Por cierto, esta apropiación del enigma platónico no parece ser nueva. Los romanos llamaban oricalcum al latón.

  7. #57 Brigantinus 04 de ene. 2006

    Yo no he visto fotos ni informaciones fidedignas de los famosos túneles excavados por el hombre. Ni pruebas definitivas que los relacionen con la Atlántida y/o Tartessos.
    El nombre es Atlántida, sí (bueno, la traducción castellana) Pero la duda es ¿Hubo alguna civilización real adscribible a esa descripción o que la pudiera inspirar? El vínculo con Atlas, Poseidon y demás es cosa del elemento mitológico griego. Habría que ver si la -supuesta- civilización originaria, limpita de "contaminaciones" griegas realmente era atlántica.
    Finalmente, lo de vincular el antiguo europeo con la civilización del Argar... la verdad es que se han formulados tantas teorías sobre la paleolingüística peninsular, que no estaría mal como una hipótesis más. Ahora bien, es evidente que hacen falta pruebas un pelín más profundas para establecer ese vínculo.

  8. #58 rcg873 04 de ene. 2006

    Perdón, me he equivocado en mi último mensaje, el que dijo que había un rey de 120 años, fue Heródoto, no Platón. mil disculpas

  9. #59 Rigel 04 de ene. 2006

    Como suele suceder en muchos casos de pseudo-ciencia se pone el carro delante de los bueyes y con una presunta conclusión (parece que aceptada de antemano) se buscan a continuación las posibles premisas de las que aquella pudiera emanar. Se ignoran todas aquellas que no interesan, y algunas otras se retuencen estiran y deforman hasta que nos cuadran.

    Asi en el link anteriormente mencionado:

    http://www.mundomisterioso.com/article.php?sid=1284
    Se nos dice:

    “La inundación que asoló este continente -la Atlántida- fue, presumiblemente, el diluvio del que se habla en mas de 600 relatos mitológicos de todo el mundo incluido el del Nuevo Testamento. Los geólogos norteamericanos Wiliam Ryan y Walter Pitman han probado que el Diluvio fue un acontecimiento real ocurrido al final de la última era glacial -sobre 9.500 años a. C.- y que junto a otros cataclismos derivados del cambio climático y de alteraciones tectónicas, transformaron la anatomía del planeta, sumergiendo unas tierras y elevando a la suPerficie otras. Sólo el 1% de la población consiguió sobrevivir. Estos datos están aceptados por la comunidad científica internacional.”

    Pues no, me temo que han oído campanas y han entendido …….. lo que querían entender.

    En el link:

    http://www.rtve.es/tve/b/redes/semanal/prg167/frsemana.htm

    Tenéis la trascripción de la entrevista que, precisamente sobre este tema, Eduardo Punset realiza en la edición 167 del programa televisivo REDES a los geólogos aludidos.

    La indroducción empieza:

    “REDES aborda esta semana desde el punto de vista científico una de las leyendas bíblicas más importantes: El diluvio universal. Los geólogos Walter Pitman y William Ryan del Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, de la Universidad de Columbia, afirman que no hubo diluvio sino una gran inundación resultado del deshielo de una de las cuatro grandes glaciaciones ocurridas en los últimos mil millones de años.

    El Mar Mediterráneo inundó las aguas del Mar Negro cuyo nivel creció entre 15 y 30 centímetros diarios.Estos geólogos a partir de dos fósiles de moluscos han sentado su teoria y recompuesto las bases de lo que fue la vida de esta zona del planeta hace 7.500 años.”

    Y ya en la entrevista continúan:

    Punset: “Corregidme si estoy equivocado, Pero lo que decís es que no hubo tal cosa como el Diluvio Universal. Luego veremos por qué. Decís, sin embargo, que hubo un diluvio muy importante, y habéis encontrado pruebas de ello que resultan irrebatibles. ¿Es así?.”

    Walter: “Es cierto. Creo que hay un 99% de certeza de que se produjo un diluvio en el Mar Negro tal como nosotros lo describimos. Probablemente hay un grado de certeza un poco menor de que fuera el causante de la diáspora; sin duda había gente allí, y esa gente tuvo que marcharse, Pero la cuestión es ¿cuánta gente había? Y decir que ésta es la fuente originaria de la leyenda es muy arriesgado, y también muy provocativo.”

    En fin os recomiendo leer la entrevista entera que por lo demás es muy interesante.

  10. #60 JM0005 05 de ene. 2006

    En respuesta a "Nos quitan las Columnas de Hércules".

    Cazadores de Atlantis. Mentiras y Falsas Acusaciones Sobre la Atlántida de Platón...

    El concepto del Mediterráneo en Platón y confirmación de los Pilares de Hércules en Gibraltar.

    Georgeos Díaz-Montexano (2004-2005)

    Atlantis Map Keywords
    Zoon the photo >>> http://www.arqueotour.com/atlantis/index_files/atlantis_keywords_fondo.jpg

    Fuente: Noticias.info

    Muchos buscadores de Atlantis siguen aún intentado sembrar el germen de la incertidumbre y la confusión entre los estudiosos de la Atlantis de Platón, acudiendo a argumentos insostenibles e infundamentados como que Platón se equivocó en sus informaciones o falsificó los hechos, aunque en ocasiones acusan a Solón (uno de los siete sabios de Athenas) o a los sacerdotes egipcios que contaron la historia a Solón. Los “cazadores de Atlantis” que actúan de esta manera son – precisamente - los mismos que intentan convencernos de que Atlantis se hallaba en otros lugares distintos al que describe Platón en el Timaeus y el Critias y que es justamente ante la boca del estrecho de Gibraltar, junto a Gadeira, entre Iberia y Marruecos.

    La mayoría de los autores que están empeñados en re-localizar a la Atlántida en otros lugares del mundo como la India, Chipre o en Israel, afirman categóricamente que Platón o Solón, cometieron errores y se equivocaron en todos los topónimos o nombres de lugares geográficos... Por desgracia, éste es el camino más fácil, además del único que les queda a todos los que quieren re-ubicar a la Isla-Península Atlántica o de Atlantis allí donde más les apetece. Estos “caza-Atlantis” afirman que Platón se equivocó (o engañó deliberadamente) y que Atlantis en realidad se hallaba en Chipre, en la Isla de Malta, en la Isla de Cerdeña, en el Mar del Norte, en Israel o Península del Sinaí, en Arabia, en varios puntos de América, en Indonesia o incluso en el Pacífico.

    Ellos actúan de esta forma vejatoria contra Platón o Solón porque no les queda más remedio, pues la única manera posible de poder convencer a la comunidad científica intelectual de que Atlantis se hallaba en alguno de esos puntos, es argumentando que Platón (o Solón) se equivocó en casi todo o era un farsante que engañó a todos sus discípulos y lectores (y a toda la humanidad); y justamente, el primer paso es intentar convencer a todo el mundo que cuando Platón menciona los Pilares de Hércules no está hablando de los Pilares de Hércules del actual estrecho de Gibraltar sino de otros que estarían en Dardanelos, o en la entrada del Mar Muerto, o quizás en el Mar Negro, o talvez en las Islas Británicas, o porque no, en el mismo Océano Índico. Por supuesto que estos “caza-Atlantis” nunca consideran la mención exacta y detallada que hace Platón de la región donde se hallaban estos Pilares de Hércules, porque no les conviene, ya que el nombre que da Platón a la región de Atlantis donde se hallaban los Pilares de Hércules es Gadeira, o sea, Cádiz, y esto sitúa – incuestionablemente - a los Pilares de Hércules en Gibraltar, además de identificar a la isla o península Atlantis con la península Iberia.

    Durante muchos años he tenido que soportar mucha tensión, acoso y hasta vejaciones, en algunos foros de Internet, porque hay gente que parece no estar dispuesta a ceder jamás (ni siquiera un ápice) antes las evidencias objetivas ni ante los hechos que son indiscutibles, cuando estas evidencias y estos hechos contradicen sus creencias “quasi religiôsâs”, y cuando uno tropieza con esta clase de Personas, es como si tropezara con toda una legión de lobos salvajes dispuestos a devorarnos hasta el último hueso. Creo que no hay nada más frustrante que comprobar como es que existen Personas que a pesar de ver que hay datos objetivos que falsean sus creencias o sus hipótesis no son capaces (por mero orgullo) de aceptar las nuevas evidencias. Es algo verdaderamente triste, sobre todo para un investigador cuyo único interés sea buscar la verdad, sea cual sea y caiga quien caiga.

    Cansado de tantas falacias, manipulaciones y engaños y de ver como intentan desacreditar a uno de los seres humanos más grandes y sabios que ha dado la humanidad, Platón (el mismo que incluso hasta los propios Cristianos llamaban el Divino), es que he decidido emprender una “cruzada intelectual” (constructiva, nunca destructiva) contra todos los “caza-Atlantis” que usan como base fundamental o “fundamentalista” (según los casos) el argumento del “error o de el engaño de Platón”. Me he comprometido a descartar a todos estos autores, y demostrar que no ha sido Platón ni Solón los que cometieron errores o engaños tan graves sino los que han venido detrás, después de Platón, queriendo re-interpretar a Platón, según sus propias conveniencias, creencias e intereses, y por supuesto, entre ellos, muchos traductores, fundamentalmente los más conocidos, que son ingleses, norteamericanos y franceses de los últimos dos siglos, pues el resto de las traducciones conocidas, en la mayoría de los países (incluida Grecia), son copias de las traducciones anglo-norteamericanas.

    La base fundamental en la que descansan todos estos “caza-Atlantis” que recurren a la descalificación de Platón (y de todo el que se cruce en sus caminos) es la ignorancia. En efecto, la mayoría (no todos) son unos auténticos ignorantes de los textos de Platón. Algunos ni siquiera han leído bien los textos de Platón, porque incluso hasta leyendo la peor de las traducciones que existe, sería difícil atreverse a buscar Atlantis en otro lugar que no fuera cerca de Gibraltar y Gadeira, y cerca de las costas Atlánticas de Iberia y Marruecos. Otros “caza-Atlantis” son Personas que piensan que simplemente siguiendo alguna de las más conocidas traducciones del Timaeus y el Critias, de los dos últimos siglos (ya sean inglesas, alemanas o francesas) es más que suficiente para buscar Atlantis, Pero esto es un grave error. Un verdadero científico siempre acudiría a las fuentes primarias.

    Todo el que haya estudiado historia o arqueología conoce muy bien de que estoy hablando. La importancia de acudir a las fuentes primarias es verdaderamente crucial, principalmente cuando nos enfrentamos a un tema tan difícil y polémico como ha sido (y será todavía) la investigación de la Atlantis de Platón. Los “caza-Atlantis” que creen en otras localizaciones de Atlantis distintas a la que ofrece Platón, y que además no saben leer griego clásico o latín, como es lógico, intentan desacreditar a quien acude a las fuentes primarias, es decir, a los textos más antiguos conocidos del Timaeus y el Critias, escritos en griego y latín, como es mi caso. Se burlan de quienes trabajamos con las fuentes primarias, o intentan restar méritos a nuestros logros con comentarios despectivos, irónicos, tendenciosos, o sencillamente mediante el desprecio o la condena al ostracismo y al exilio intelectual. Pero – a pesar de todo - debemos seguir trabajando… Así pues, vayamos a los hechos.

    A continuación demostraré como Platón cuando estaba hablando de los Pilares de Hércules que estaban dentro de la región de Gadeira (Cádiz), de la isla o península de Atlantis (Iberia), estaba pensando en los mismos Pilares de Hércules del actual estrecho de Gibraltar y no en otros como sostienen los “caza-Atlantis” que se basan en al indigno argumento “del error o del engaño de Platón”.

    La evidencia fuerte la he encontrado justamente en otra referencia a los Pilares de Hércules que aparece en otro de los diálogos de la “OPera Omnia” de Platón. Me refiero a la sección comprendida entre 109a y 109b del Phaidôn (Phaedo). En este fragmento – que analizaremos a continuación – Platón está describiendo toda la cuenca del mar Mediterráneo hasta el Mar Negro, y justamente usa como límites extremos, Este-Oeste, al río Phasis, situado hacia el extremo Este de Europa, en los confines del Mar Negro1, y los Pilares de Hércules para señalar el extremo Oeste. Veamos el fragmento.

    Quote:

    "... (109ª) eti toinun, ephê, pammega ti einai auto, kai hêmas oikein [109b] tous mechri Hêrakleiôn stêlôn (109b) apo Phasidos en smikrôi tini moriôi, hôsPer Peri telma murmêkas ê batrachous Peri tên thalattan oikountas, kai allous allothi pollous en polloisi toioutois topois oikein..." (Plato. Phaedo, 109a-109b)

    "... creo que todo (el mundo 2) es inmenso y nosotros habitamos desde (el río 3) Phasis hasta los pilares de Hércules sobre una parte pequeña, viviendo alrededor del mar como hormigas o ranas en torno a una charca... " Plato. Phaedo, 109a-109b. Traducción: Georgeos Díaz-Montexano, 2000)


    Se trata de una evidencia incuestionable. Platón sabía Perfectamente que desde varios siglos antes, incluso desde antes de Solón, todos los intelectuales griegos y hombres de mar, ubicaban a los Pilares de Hércules entre Iberia y Libya, junto a Gadeira, donde hoy se encuentra el estrecho de Gibraltar. Tanto el nombre de las Columnas de Hércules (como denominación del estrecho de Gibraltar) como el nombre del brazo de mar o pelagos del Atlántico (actual Golfo de Cádiz) ya eran conocidos por los griegos desde antes de los tiempos de Solón. Stesíchoros escribió sus obras poco antes de la visita de Solón a Sais y ya describe al "piélago del Atlántico" con el mismo término usado por Platón mucho después, y lo mismo puede decirse de otros autores como Ephicarmos, Íbycos, Exkylas y Pherekydês, mientras que antes de Platón, Eurípides, Píndaro y el mismo Heródoto ya mencionan al Atlántico y a las Columnas de Hércules junto a Gadeira o Cádiz.

    El simbolismo que usa Platón para confinar los límites del Mediterráneo de Este a Oeste es una evidencia poderosa, porque si el río Phasis era el extremo conocido de los mares interiores de Europa, el límite que dividía Europa de Asia 4, pues los Pilares de Hércules eran el extremo Occidental del mundo conocido. Pues el punto más extremo del mar interior o Mediterráneo hacia el occidente fue sin dudas el estrecho de Gibraltar.

    Es absurdo pensar que Platón - cuando describía la posición exacta de Atlantis junto a los Pilares de Hércules y la región de Gadeira - estaba pensando en unos Pilares de Hércules situados en el extremo Este, en el Mar Negro, o incluso en el estrecho de Dardanelos...

    1º. Primero, porque en los límites orientales no sitúa a ningunos pilares sino al río Phasis, en el Mar Negro.

    2º. Segundo, porque ya desde mucho antes de Platón se identificaba a los Pilares de Hércules con el estrecho que hoy conocemos como Gibraltar, incluso poco tiempo antes de Platón, Herodotos también ubicaba a los Pilares de Hércules - sin ninguna duda - en el mismo estrecho de Gibraltar.

    3º. Tercero, porque Platón ubica a los Pilares de Hércules junto al Atlántico.

    4º. Cuarto porque Platón afirma que la región de Atlantis donde se hallaban situado los Pilares de Hércules se llamaba Gadeira, o sea, la actual región de Cádiz, en España.

    Por otra parte, el contexto analizado del Phaedos 109a-b, cuando describe al mar interior como una charca (en comparación con el resto de los mares que rodean al mundo) coincide con el fragmento del Timaeus donde Platón habla del interior de las Columnas de Hércules, o Mar mediterráneo, como si fuera poco más “que un golfo (o puerto) con una estrecha embocadura” (Gibraltar).

    Las comparaciones geográficas entre lugares parecidos a los que describe Platón no tienen -ni tendrá jamás- ninguna base sólida digna de ser considerada como seria o rigurosa sino se ajustan a las correctas identificaciones de nombres de lugares geográficos ofrecidos por Platón. Islas y penínsulas existen en todos los rincones de la tierra; grandes llanuras rodeadas de montañas, estrechos, golfos o brazos de mar, áreas mineras, y hasta zonas sísmicas con posibilidades o huellas de antiguos terremotos y tsunamis existen por casi todo el planeta, Pero la cuestión sigue siendo que, el único lugar de la tierra donde se reúnen todas esas características con los nombres o topónimos que ofrece Platón (referenciados por otros autores antiguos anteriores y posteriores) sigue siendo entre la península de Iberia y el noroeste de Marruecos, con el estrecho de Gibraltar como eje central.

    Después de todas estas abrumadoras evidencias, me pregunto: ¿seguirán los “caza-Atlantis” que usan el indigno método de acusar a Platón de farsante o de tonto, presionando a los estudiosos y a los aficionados con sus falsas e infundamentadas hipótesis de que los Pilares de Hércules estaban en otros lugares del Mundo?. Lamentablemente, temo que seguirán haciéndolo, y por desgracia para el avance de la ciencia histórica, durante mucho tiempo. Vivimos en un imPerio de incertidumbre y confusión, en la dictadura del corporativismo y el sectarismo, y el que no está dentro, pues se quedará afuera. Esa es la triste, Pero dura realidad.

    1. Phasis: un río en la Cólquide hacia el estremo Este del Ponto o Mar Negro; límite de Europa y Asia. (¿acaso el actual río Rion?) http://www.Perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0062%3Aid%3Dphasis

    2. En esta posición no aparece ninguna palabra greiga para "tierra". Sin embargo, la tierra (como planeta o Gaia) es mencionada en tan solo unos párrafos anteriores, los traductores que me han precedido han creído oportuno incluir la palabra "tierra" en sus traducciones. Mi intención es siempre intentar ser lo más fiel posible a los textos originales o fuentes primarias, Pero en este caso he creído necesario incluirla la palabra "mundo", aunque fuera entre paréntesis para facilitar un poco la comprensión del pasaje.

    3. En el texto base no aparece la palabra "río". Sencillamente se asume. Como si dijéramos, el (río) Betis".

    4. Herodotos nombra también al río Phasis como un límite de Europa y Asia (Herodotos 4.45.1)

  11. #61 rcg873 05 de ene. 2006



    TARTESSOS



    POSIBLES CONSTRUCCIONES ATLANTES

    CERCA DE GIBRALTAR



    Scientific Atlantology International Society (SAIS). Madrid, 10/12/2005






    El uso de piedras blancas, rojas, y negras en antiguas construcciones anteriores a la época romana.



    El investigador Hispano-Cubano Georgeos Díaz-Montexano ha descubierto el uso de una técnica de construcción donde se alternan bloques de piedras de color rojo, con otros de color blanco o claro y otros de color negro u oscuro. Este hecho que en principio parecería poco relevante a la mayoría de los estudiosos y arqueólogos presenta un enorme valor para los investigadores de la Atlántida, pues es la primera vez que se reporta el uso de esta combinación de colores en construcciones antiguas que podrían remontar a la Bronze Age, pues han aparecido por debajo de construcciones de una ciudad romana.

    El hallazgo lo ha realizado Díaz-Montexano justamente en las ruinas de una ciudad antigua que ya existía desde la Edad del Bronce y que mucho después fue conquistada por los romanos. Se trata de la ciudad de Baelo Claudia, la cual se halla muy cercana a los Pilares de Hércules, o sea, justo como dice el Timaeus: “pro tou stomatos” o “ante la boca” de las Estelas de Herakles o estrecho de Gibraltar.

    Curiosamente esta ciudad sufrió al menos dos terremotos y un tsunami, según muestran las evidencias que han recogido los sismólogos españoles.

    Díaz-Montexano ha estudiado las ruinas de la ciudad y ha descubierto como debajo de los edificios de la ciudad romana, aparecen restos de otra ciudad mucho más antigua, sobre la que se suPerpuso la romana. Esta ciudad - anterior en el tiempo - combinaba las piedras de color rojo o rojizas con las piedras de color blanco o claro y con piedras de color negro u oscuro, que en su época debió provocar una imagen bastante agradable a la vista.

    Aunque en las fotos se pueden apreciar bastante bien estas combinaciones de colores, todos los investigadores que han visitado el lugar coinciden en que, en directo, es decir, cuando se está en el mismo sitio arqueológico, los colores se muestran mucho más intensos y definidos de lo que se puede apreciar después en las fotos.

    Los estudios geológicos demuestran que las piedras rojas y las de color oscuro eran traídas desde algunos kilómetros de distancia (aunque no muy lejos), pues la mayoría son piedra tipo Gossan y basaltos que no se hallan en el mismo sitio inmediato que rodea al yacimiento; lo que demuestra que existía una clara intencionalidad y que no se debe a una mera casualidad debida al hecho de tratarse del tipo de roca que abunda en el sitio; aunque la mayor evidencia la proporcionan las propias construcciones romanas, donde estas piedras apenas existen (solamente en unos pocos casos aislados que se debe a una reutilización del material de la ciudad que existía anteriormente); Los romanos construyeron el 99% de sus edificios con la piedra que es propia del lugar que es una caliza de color claro.

    En el Critias podemos leer:

    “... cortaron la piedra de debajo de la isla que está en el medio y de debajo de los círculos exteriores e interiores; en parte eran de color blanco, negro y rojo. Cuando las cortaban, a la misma vez construían dársenas dobles en el interior, techadas con la misma piedra. Unas construcciones eran simples, otras mezclaban las piedras de varios colores y las entretejían como un puzzle con gracia, haciéndolas naturalmente placenteras.....” (Critias de Platón; 116a-116b. Traducción de Georgeos Díaz-Montexano, 2000)

    La definición de las palabras usadas por platón para referirse a los colores es la siguiente:

    Leukon: “blanco; luminoso, brillo, brillante”
    Melana: “negro, oscuro” (con matices que tienden hacia el marron o carmelita oscuro, pardo, gris oscuro, negro)
    Eruthron: “rojo, bermelló” (el rojo del vino tinto y de la sangre)

    En las ruinas antiguas de Baelo se observan estos mismos colores combinados.

    Este importante descubrimiento es una confirmación más de las teorías de Díaz-Montexano sobre la identificación de la isla o península de Atlantis con la misma península de Iberia, pues en el Critias y en el Timaeus se afirma que Atlantis era una Nêsos (palabra que se podía traducir como isla o también como península), que se hallaba justo “pro tou stomatos”, “ante la boca”, de los Pilares de Hércules (Gibraltar), y también en el Critias se afirma que la isla (o península) Atlantida se dividió en 10 distritos o regiones, y una de estas diez regiones se denominaba en el idioma indígena (epichoriôn) de Atlantis como Gadeira, y esta región se hallaba muy próxima a los Pilares de Hércules. Sin duda se trata de la misma Gadeira o Cádiz, que en efecto siempre ha estado muy próxima a los Pilares de Hércules (Gibraltar) y siempre ha sido una región o distrito de la península de Ibêria.

    Según Díaz-Montexano: “...no existe ninguna duda de que la isla (o península) Atlantida que se describe en el Timaeus y el Critias es la misma península (o isla) de Ibêria. La lexicography demuestra que los antiguos griegos, desde antes de los tiempos del legislador griego Solón, usaban la palabra Nêsos para definir lo mismo a las islas que a las penínsulas. Y el análisis de los textos geográficos, y de la literatura griega anterior a los tiempos de Solón, ha Permitido a los exPertos en historia de la Cartography determinar que entre la época de Homer y hasta después de morir Solón, en la época de Hekateos, los griegos tenían la idea de que el territorio donde se halla la actual península de Ibêria era una gran isla, y que por encima de ella habían “otras islas”, justamente esto es lo que se describe en el Critias y el Timaeus. La concepción del mundo antiguo – y de Atlantis - que se refleja en estos textos, es la misma que existía en los tiempos anteriores a Solón...”






  12. #62 P. Sanders 08 de ene. 2006

    Varyean:

    Menos mal que no querías ofender, por que vamos...
    Luego de eso, la cosa se leía como hípótesis, y si hablamos de razas inferiores, siempre podemos hablar de las mentes estrechas como la tuya que chorrean incoherencia malsonante. Si no tienes respuesta a mis dudas, y sólo insultos, vete a darle patadas a las latas. Pero bueno, sólo buscaba lo que los demás, respuestas, y el amigo Brigantinus por lo menos, se ha molestado en responder y con una educación y una objetividad con la que, tristemente, no te identificas, y has soltado una sarta de chorradas tan banales que incluso Enkur se ha visto obligado a tirarte de la oreja. Y menos mal que no han hecho más.
    Todos tenemos dudas, y yo tenía las mías y esa hipótesis además de que la ponen en esa web, Pero bueno, todo aclarado por Brigantinus, te dejo con tu "demoledor sarcasmo", que es lo único que has sabido responder y para lo que parece que te vale la sesera.
    Y gracias, Brigantinus, por cierto, hay un libro de un tal Jürgen Spanuth que podría interesarte también como hipótesis, si quieres contacta conmigo y te lo paso en un archivo...os seguiré leyendo para aprender más cosas... ¡buen año!

  13. #63 Diocles 03 de mayo de 2006

    Creo que la mejor manera de identificar el territorio que los griegos llamaban Atlantis o Atlántida es leer los textos de Diodoro Sículo, que están bastante más claros que los de Platón:
    "Los atlantes, que habitan las regiones junto al Océano y viven en una prósPera tierra..." (Biblioteca de Historia III, 56, 2)
    "Atlas recibió las zonas costeras junto al Océano y llamó atlantes a estos pueblos, y también llamó Atlas a la montaña más alta del país." (Biblioteca de Historia III, 60, 1)
    La localización que proporciona Diodoro Sículo (regiones junto al Océano) incluiría lógicamente la Península Ibérica (el término griego "nesos" significa isla o península), que Platón señala al mencionar Gadeira o Gadir (Cádiz), y el noroeste de África (el Magreb), que Platón incluye igualmente en la Atlántida al indicar que "los elefantes eran abundantes en ella". Las dos zonas se encuentran "frente a las Columnas de Hércules" (a ambos lados del estrecho de Gibraltar), y al mismo tiempo están más allá de este estrecho.
    Por su parte, Herodoto (IV, 184) también afirma que los hombres que vivían en la región norteafricana del Atlas, se llamaban atlantes.

    Pasando a otro tema diferente, también tratado en este foro: Es cierto que Troya ya había sido localizada en la colina de Hissarlik por otros investigadores antes que H. Schliemann, Pero hay que puntualizar que la mayoría de ellos eran igualmente "amateurs". El primero fue Charles Maclaren, un Periodista escocés, y el otro fue Frank Calvert, cónsul de Gran Bretaña y Estados Unidos en los Dardanelos. El único académico que apoyaba decididamente esta tesis era Charles Newton, quien trabajó en el Museo Británico, Pero él no consiguió en Londres la financiación necesaria para emprender las excavaciones, lo cual parece indicar que la "ciencia oficial" no estaba tan convencida de que se pudiesen encontrar las ruinas de Troya, o al menos no estaba dispuesta a jugarse los cuartos en aquella búsqueda.
    Ciertamente, Schliemann no fue muy honesto al atribuirse todo el éxito de descubrir Troya, Pero tampoco hay que negarle sus propios méritos al invertir los fondos y esfuerzos necesarios para materializar sus decisivos hallazgos en Troya y en Micenas. Por otra parte, Schliemann fue muy atacado y criticado por las autoridades académicas de Alemania, su propio país, y llegó a ser acusado de farsante. Éste es otro indicio de que muchos académicos de la época no creían realmente que Troya estuviese enterrada en Hissarlik o, al menos, se mostraban todavía muy escépticos.

  14. #64 A.M.Canto 03 de mayo de 2006

    La última teoría, convenientemente criticada:
    The Bosnia-Atlantis Connection
    April 27, 2006
    by Mark Rose
    Frenzied reporting of supposed pyramids in the Balkans ignores the truth and embraces the fantastic.

    The world's oldest and largest pyramid found in Bosnia? It sounds incredible. The story has swept the media, from the Associated Press and the BBC, from paPers and websites in the U.S. to those in India and Australia. Too bad that it is not a credible story at all. In fact, it is impossible. Who is the "archaeologist" who has taken the media for a ride? Why did the media not check the story more carefully? ARCHAEOLOGY will address these questions in depth in our next issue, July/August, but for now let's at least put the lie to the claims emanating from Visoko, the town 20 miles northwest of Sarajevo where the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" is located.
    [...]
    Others fear that Osmanagic's excavations will damage real sites (the hill he calls the "Pyramid of the Sun" is said to have medieval, Roman, and Illyrian remains on it). In one of the few critical accounts of the Bosnian pyramid story, which appeared in the Art NewspaPer, the University of Sarejevo's Enver Imamovic, a former director of the National Museum in Sarjevo, is quoted as saying, "This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, Perform surgery in hospitals."

    There is public outcry within Bosnia, and an online petition that seeks to shut down Osmanagic's project. But he apparently has backers within the federal government and the Sarejevo city government. Whether he is allowed to continue or not is unresolved for now, and his website makes no mention of any controversy. And even when the mainstream media catch up and realize that the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" is no such thing, it will have entered the annals of fantastic archaeology and will have a multitude of believers and defenders.

    Mark Rose is executive and online editor of ARCHAEOLOGY.
    Resto en: http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/index.html

  15. #65 Jiamago 14 de jun. 2006

    Otro fraude mas este cuento de Osmanagic, como Bimini. Un nuevo desatre para la investigación científica de la Atlántida. Por lo que leí de este tema, este Personaje mezcla basura con datos reales, Pero que es atractiva para los medios de comunicación: pirámides, Atlantida y extraterrestres...

    Bueno, mis escusas por mi falta de presencia este foro, Pero he estado poniendo más esfuerzo en la discusión en un foro en inglés...

    http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001541;p=1

    Yo quiero agregar un dato científico que todos los interesados en el tema debemos conocer y manejar: la investigación genética del Proyecto Genográfico de National Geographic e IBM, de los cuales ya hay avances importantes para establecer los reales movimientos de los pueblos.

    https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

    Este trabajo es muy interesante porque obliga a todo investigador a usar esta nueva información, así como la arqueología y otras herramientas, para fundamentar su hipótesis... Si dice que Atlantis estuvo en tal o cual punto, debe demostrar que hay un registro genético concreto de este proceso...

    Y sin falsa modestia, la única teoría que sobrepasa exitosamente esta prueba es la mía. No hay registros de pueblos civilizados que vinieran del Atlántico a Europa, o del Norte de Europa al Sur o de España a Oriente. Lo que sí es hay registro de pueblos agricultores que salen del Medio Oriente hacia Europa Occidental, que es lo que yo señalo. Además, lo hacen en la fecha que yo señalo en mi libro...

    Hay que ver los datos de los Haplogrupos de cromosoma Y, M35, M172 y 12f2.1. También es muy interesante el análisis del ADN mt (mitocondrial o femenino) de marcador conocido como Haplogrupo X .

    Están en inglés, Pero si interesa, yo ya hice las respetivas traducciones...

    Aquí agrego lo del Haplogrupo M35 que tengo a la mano:

    Haplogrupo 35

    Primero Aparición: 20.000 años atrás.

    Tipo: Cromosoma Y

    El hombre que dio lugar al marcador M35 existió hace alrededor 20.000 años en el Oriente Medio. Sus descendientes estaban entre los primeros agricultores y ayudaron a difundir la agricultura desde el Oriente Medio a la región mediterránea.
    En el final de la pasada edad de hielo, hace alrededor de 10.000 años, el clima cambió de nuevo y llevó a la producción agrícola. Esto estímulo probablemente a la Revolución Neolítica, al punto en el la forma nómades de vida de los cazador recolector se transformó en una vida agrícola y sedentaria.

    Los cultivos tempranos exitosos en la Creciente Fértil del Oriente Medio, comenzaron alrededor 8.000 años, Permitió el auge de la población y alentó la migración a través de gran parte del mundo mediterráneo.

    El mayor control sobre sus suministro de alimentos marcó un momento crucial para la especie humana. Para el clan pequeño de 30 a 50 Personas que eran altamente móviles y organizadas informalmente, la agricultura trajo la primer manifestación de civilización. Ocupar un solo territorio requirió una organización social más compleja, moviéndose desde los lazos del parentesco de una tribu pequeña a las relaciones más elaboradas de una comunidad más grande. Estimuló el comercio, la escritura, el calendario, e inició el ascenso a las comunidades y ciudades sedentarias modernas. Este antiguo granjero ayudó a traer la Revolución Neolítica al Mediterráneo.

    Fuente: https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic

    Esta nota tienen un par de aspecto interpretativos que no comparto plenamente, tal como que se "alentó la migración a través de gran parte del mundo mediterráneo.", porque yo sostengo que esta migración fue provocada por el desastre en la región del Mediterrano Oriental y la isla de Atlantis (Canaan), documentado por Ryan y Pitman. Pero lodatos concretos corroboran lo que yo sostengo.

    Si hay interés en seguir este debate, estoy totalmente disponible...

    Atte.

    Jaime Manuschevich

  16. #66 Habis 03 de ago. 2006

    Brigantinus

    Cuando dices que ningun tsunami crearon las marismas del Bajo Guadalquivir, dices verdad, Pero no cuando dices que el mar no entró nunca. Aun hoy, lo hace dos veces diarias, pues no olvides que, de no ser por la exclusa del puerto, las meras serían Percibibles hasta Alcala del Rio (10 km al norte de Sevilla). Y aunque su formacion no se deba a un maremoto, si ha sufrido los efectos de estos. Cuando el tsunami de Lisboa, el agua anegó Triana. Repito la letra de esta mitica (y antiquísima)
    soleá de Triana:

    El dia del terremoto
    llegó el agüita hasta arriba.
    Pero no pudo llegar
    hasta donde llegó mi fatiga.

    ¿Por que sube el agua durante un terremoto? Yo creo que es una referecia clara al terremoto de Lisboa.

    Ahora bien, que alguien como Platon, que tendría referencias geograficas mas o menos laxas del Bajo Guadalquivir, y que pudo saber que ya en su epoca era complicado de navegar debido a los bancos de arena y que además no entendía de dinamicas de sedimentación fluvial, pudiera entender que ese estado de cosas se debía al mitico cataclismo, es algo totalmente Perdonable.
    Nosotros sabemos que no es asi (aunque con matices; el cierre de la punta de Malandar y el complejo dunar de Doñana son de origen marino), Pero él no lo sabía, y en su versión del desastre la explicacion es esa.

  17. #67 Habis 13 de sep. 2006

    Jiamago, no es conveniente depositar tanta confianza en los estudios de genetica de poblaciones por una cuetion de pura epistemología. Está claro que los movimientos de pueblos que se producen POR UNA SOLA VEZ Y EN UNA DIRECCION dejan un rastro genetico evidente. Pero no así cuando hay flujos y reflujos. Si algun pueblo en el 3000 ac (por poner una fecha), se expandió de desde el Sur de España al Mediterraneo Oriental, ello no dejaría rastro genetico, habida cuenta de que ese pueblo pudo volver al lugar de origen de sus antepasados que llevaron el neolitico a occidente. Por otra parte no hay que olvidar que los marcadores son todos los que estan, Pero no estan todos los que son, de hecho nos resulta de todo punto imposible saber si el total de marcadores hallados son el 100, el 50 o el 10% de todos los que han habido, pues todos aquellos de corta vida que se extinguieran con sus pocos portadores sin dejar rastro, se habrían Perdido no sólo para el futuro, sino también para el pasado. El valor de estos estudios es similar al de una encuiesta de intención de voto, donde se adivinan los principales partidos y sus porcentajes dentro de unos limites, Pero NUNCA, NUNCA, NUNCA el resultado exacto.

  18. #68 Brigantinus 14 de sep. 2006

    ¡¡¡¡Haaaaaaabis!!!!!
    Gracias -con un mes de retraso- por la aclaración sobre lo de las mareas.
    Me vienes que ni caído del cielo.
    ¿Qué son estas formas que se ven aquí?
    http://www.celtiberia.net/verrespuesta.asp?idp=8330&cadena=Geoglifos

    Tienen un vago parecido con los "bunkes" de un campo de golf. Y son muchísimos concentrados en una sola zona.
    Geoglifos no, desde luego, Pero ¿tiene que ver con cultivos o con repoblaciones de animales?
    Ahora mismo no se pueden ver las fotos que colgué. De todos modos, tienes las coordenadas...
    Si me puedes aclarar algo, agradecido.

  19. #69 JM0005 07 de dic. 2006

    Hola, hace un tiempo que no vengo por aquí (es que ando muy ocupado ultimamente) , aprovecho la ocasión para traeros un mensaje que he econtrado en un Blog escéptico, esPero que os interese, ya que trata el problema de la Atlántida justo desde su raíz primera.

    Saludos,
    JM0005

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Estoy plenamente de acuerdo con vuestro planteamiento sobre el espíritu crítico, y por ello aprovecho la ocasión para informar y advertir de una grave (gravísimo) error, o mejor dicho ¡falacia! que nuestro anfitrión repite (siguiendo a todos los escépticos anteriores) sobre la tan manida frase atribuída a Aristóteles que cuestiona la veracidad de la historia de la Atlántida de Platón. Creo que deberían echarle un vistazo al siguiente artículo sobre la susodicha frase de Aristóteles de la Atlántida. Veréis que no es más que ue una ¡pura invención!

    [url=http://georgeos-diaz-montexano.blog.com.es/]http://georgeos-diaz-montexano.blog.com.es/[/url]

    En el mismo Blog hay otro artículo muy interesante y bien argumentado sobre la discusión de si debe clasificarse como "mito" o como "historia verdadera" la narración de la Atlántida.

    Salu2
    Mc Greinan

  20. #70 JM0005 08 de dic. 2006

    Estoy muy disgustado y decepcionado. No comprendo porque se han censurado tres de mis últimas contribuciones: los dos artículos que trataban sobre la cuestión del mito y sobre lo que supuestamente dijo Aristóteles con relación a la Atlántida.

    - ATLANTIDA HISTORICA ¿Es realmente la Atlántida una civilización mítica?
    La Atlántida, una historia verdadera, no un mito.

    - La Atlántida y Aristóteles.
    "El que la soñó la hizo desaparecer"

    - ATLANTIDIS NOMINA . ATLANTIDOS ONOMATA . LOS NOMBRES DE ATLANTIS. Desciframiento e Identificación

    Todos los que lo han leído saben Perfectamente que no habían ellos nada ofensivo ni nada que contravenga la moral ni el método científico. Ni siquiera en los mensajes o respuestas habia nada que justificara tal injusta decisión.

    Creo que nos merecemos una explicación.

    Salu2
    JM0005

  21. #71 JM0005 14 de dic. 2006

    Escribió Teshub
    09/08/2005 18:49:29

    Si no creemos en la existencia de la Atlántida, ¿por qué hemos de creer en la de Sócrates?. ¿Qué documento oficial ateniense, o escrito suyo existen?. Ninguno, creemos en Sócrates porque Jenofonte y Platón hablaron de él...sino, ¿de qué?.
    Y con la Atlántida pasa lo mismo, aquí el problema es que Aristóteles dijo que era un invento de Platón...y claro, si lo dice Aristóteles, pues quien va a discutirlo.
    Eso sí, que Teopompus de Quios (sobre un origen distinto, esta vez frigio, y llamándola Meropis), Diódoro de Sicilia, Proculus o Teofrasto de Lesbos hablen de la Atlántida resulta irrelevante, imagino..."

    Más claro no se puede decir... ¡Bravo Teshub!.

    A propósito, yo había colgado en este sito de Celtiberia un excelente artículo de Georgeos Díaz-Montexano donde destruía definitivamente esa falacia histórica de la tan manida frase donde supuestamente Arsitóteles negaba la existencia de la Atlántida de Platón. Díaz-Montexano demuestra de manera incuestionable que no ha sido más que una falacia, es decir, una gran mentira creada por los escépticos y atlantistas, tergiversando un fragmento de Estrabón.

    Mejor te dejo una parte del artículo (te recomiendo que lo leas en su Blog sobre la Atlántida de Platón





    La Atlántida y Aristóteles
    "El que la soñó la hizo desaparecer"
    Historia de una falacia histórica


    Por Georgeos Díaz-Montexano





    Platón y Aristóteles - Pintura de Rafel





    "Investigar es ver lo que todo el mundo ha visto, y pensar lo que nadie más ha pensado" (Albert Szent Gyorgi)... "Una mentira es como una bola de nieve; cuanto más tiempo se le hace rodar, más grande se vuelve." (Martín Lutero)... "habrá que Perseguir la mentira para encontrar la verdad" (Gil Grisson, CSI).



    Cuántas veces hemos leído en numerosos artículos "escépticos" o "racionalistas", de índole cientificista, así como en muchas enciclopedias al uso, esa célebre frase atribuida a Aristóteles que cuestiona la credibilidad de la historia de la Atlántida de Platón, y que al referirse a Platón y la Atlántida misma, al parecer dice algo así como "el hombre que la soñó, la hizo desaparecer", o según versiones inglesas, "el que la inventó (refiriéndose supuestamente a Platón), la hizo desaparecer".



    Pues bien, esta susodicha frase, usada hasta la saciedad por todo tipo de escépticos (más por los pseudoescépticos) anti-platónicos, anti-atlantistas y muchos funda-científicos, no es más que una mera invención, una patraña, una tremenda falacia, creada a partir de una pésima (o mailtencionada) interpretación de un pasaje de otro autor griego, Estrabón, quien en su comentario 102 del Lib. II, establece una simple comparación entre las murallas de los Aqueos -mencionada en la Iliada de Homero- y la isla Atlántida, al parecer trasladando otra opinión, que aunque él mismo atribuye a Aristóteles más adelante, en el lib. XIII, 598, en realidad parece ser una "communis opinio" entre los intelectuales escépticos de la época. Ciertamente esta opinión planteaba que Homero, de la misma manera que habría inventado las murallas de los Aqueos las habría hecho igualmente desaparecer después, Pero en ningún momento -y esto debe puntualizarse- Estrabón pone en boca de Aristóteles ni en la de Posidonio (ni en la suya propia, por supuesto) ninguna frase antiplatónica o antiatlantista como la anteriormente citada.







    estrabon-ii-102-atlantida.jpg
    Clica sobre la foto para ampliarla a tamaño real.



    De este comentario de Estrabón, y de la opinión atribuida a Aristóteles por él mismo, respecto a la invención de las murallas de los Aqueos por parte de Homero, algunos autores contemporáneos coligieron que Estrabón estaría queriéndonos decir que, según Aristóteles, de la misma manera que Homero inventó las murallas de los Aqueos, para después hacerlas desaparecer, Platón podía haber hecho lo mismo con la Atlántida; Pero en realidad esto no es más que una mera especulación sin fundamento ni siquiera contextual, y la única verdad en todo este asunto es que la célebre frase antiplatónica y antiatlantista -tan usada y rehusada- puesta en boca de Aristóteles (evidentemente con el objetivo de otorgarle mayor autoridad), y que reza: "el que la soñó (o la inventó) la hizo desaparecer", no es más que una patraña, una falsificación histórica. ¡Nunca ha existido en boca (o escrito) de Aristóteles!, al menos que se sepa. No se halla un solo texto atribuido a Aristóteles (ni siquiera en los pseudoaristotélicos),  en el que se pueda leer dicha frase ni nada parecido que la justiifique como tal; en realidad -y supongo que esto tiene que doler a algunos... y mucho-, al parecer Aristóteles no tuvo ninguna duda respecto a la historia de la Atlántida de Platón (o no le interesó el asunto), pues de hecho no existe en toda su obra ni un solo comentario sobre esta enigmática civilización, que el propio Platón denomina -precisamente- como "historia verdadera" (gri. "alethinon logon"; lat. "veram historiam") y no un mito o fábula ficticia.



    estrabon-xiii-598-muros-de-troya-aristoteles.jpg
    Clica sobre la foto para ampliarla a tamaño real.




    La frase en cuestión no es más que una mera invención recreada en los ya citados pasajes de Estrabón, Pero una vez adulterados los hechos y datos y sacándose forzadas conclusiones, y lo peor de todo, poniéndose en boca del mismísimo Aristóteles una frase anti-atlantista y anti-platónica, y por ende, una negación de la Atlántida por parte del mismo Aristóteles; una negación, o cuestionamiento, de la veracidad de la historia de Atlantis, que al parecer jamás existió, puesto que nunca ha sido hallada en texto alguno de todo su corpus u óPera como contrariamente a los hechos nos han hecho creer a todos durante mucho tiempo los que siempre se han creído abanderados de la verdad, y del rigor científico. Resulta paradójico que se haya estado usando como principal misil anti-atlantista y anti-platónico -para justificar la hipótesis (algunos dirían el dogma) del caracter mítico o ficticio de la narración de la Atlántida de Platón, y de su asumida condición de mera invención-, justamente un argumento falso, que no es más que eso mismo, o sea, una mera invención.



    Los textos en griego


    6. ὀρθῶς κεῖται παρ' αὐτῷ· πρὸς ὃ καὶ τὸ τοῦ Πλάτωνος εὖ παρατίθησιν, ὅτι ἐνδέχεται καὶ μὴ πλάσμα εἶναι τὸ περὶ τῆς νήσου τῆς Ἀτλαντίδος, περὶ ἧς ἐκεῖνος ἱστορῆσαι Σόλωνά φησι πεπυσμένον παρὰ τῶν Αἰγυπτίων ἱερέων, ὡς ὑπάρχουσά ποτε ἀφανισθείη, τὸ μέγεθος οὐκ ἐλάττων ἠπείρου· καὶ τοῦτο οἴεται βέλτιον εἶναι λέγειν ἢ διότι ὁ πλάσας αὐτὴν ἠφάνισεν, ὡς ὁ ποιητὴς τὸ τῶν Ἀχαιῶν τεῖχος.




    Su transcripción en caracteres latinos:




    "... orthôs keitai par' autô pros o kai to tou Platônos eu paratithêsin, oti endekhetai kai mê plasma einai to Peri tês nêsou tês Atlantidos, Peri ês ekeinos istorêsai Solôna fêsi pepusmenon para tôn Aiguptiôn iereôn, ôs uparkhousa pote aphanistheiê, to megethos oukh elattôn êpeirou kai touto oistai beltion einai legein ê dioti o plasas autên êphanisen, ôs o poiêtês to tôn Akhaiôn teikhos. ..." (Estrabón, Geografica.  Lib. II, 102, 20-30).





    Su traducción. (añado también paréntesis y subrayados):




    "...Y en este punto, él (Posidonio?) hace bien en citar la declaración de Platón de que la historia sobre la isla de Atlántida no es un invento. Acerca de esta (la Atlántida) Solón, después de haber hecho preguntas a los sacerdotes egipcios, relató que la Atlántida existió una vez realmente, Pero desapareció, y su magnitud era no menor que la del Epiro (continente, o Grecia continental)es mejor sostener esto que decir "el que la inventó hizo que desapareciera, como el Poeta con el muro de los Aqueos" (cita atribuida a Aristóteles, por Estrabón más adelante, en el lib. XIII, 598)..."





    Según traducciones latino-francesas, un poco inexactas, que más bien son interpretaciones; de hecho, hay palabras y hasta oraciones que no existen en el texto griego:




    "...Aprobamos bastante que él (Posidonio), para apoyar su tesis (sobre los terremotos), haya citado lo que dice Platon de la Atlantida, que la tradición relativa a esta isla no es una mera ficción, los sacerdotes egipcios -a quienes interrogaba Solon- le había asegurado que existió antiguamente una isla con este nombre, Pero que esta había desaparecido, aunque tuvo una extensión no menor que la del Epiro (Grecia continental). Un hombre sensato como Posidonio juzga que vale más expresarse de este modo que de decir de la Atlantida lo (mismo) que se dijo de la muralla de los aqueos donde se cuestiona a Homero, «el que le evocó le habrá hecho desaparecer.»..."


    Fragmento del libro XIII, 598. Cita de Aristóteles sobre la muralla de Troya. (Strabo, Geography. 13.1.36)  


    "... νεωστὶ γὰρ γεγονέναι φησὶ τὸ τει̂χος ̔ἢ οὐδ' ἐγένετο, ὁ δὲ πλάσας ποιητὴς ἠφάνισεν, ὡς  ̓Αριστοτέλης φησίν̓. ..."



    "... neôsti gar gegonenai phêsi to teichos ê oud' egeneto, ho de plasas poiêtês êphanisen, hôs Aristotelês phêsin. ..." (Strabo, 13.1.36. ed. A. Meineke, Geographica. Leipzig: Teubner. 1877). 


    Esta es la traducción interlineal y lexicográfica (según el "Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon. revised and augmented throughout by. Sir Henry Stuart Jones. with the assistance of. Roderick McKenzie. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940."). Compárese con las traducciones libres o interpretaciones y mi traducción metafrástica.


    Transliteración Interlineal de Estrabon 13-1-36Clica sobre la foto para ampliarla


    Esta es la traducción metafrástica (o literal):



    "... Recientemente fue producido, declara (Homero?), el muro (de Troya); o quizás este no fue producido, sino un invento (que el) poeta (Homero) hizo desaparecer, como declara Aristóteles. ..." (Georgeos Díaz-Montexano, 2006)


    Y estas son las traducciones libres, frásticas, o más bien interpretaciones libres (según versiones inglesas, francesas y alemanas), que son a su vez las más populares:


    "...ya que Homero dice que la muralla (de Troya) sólo había sido construida recientemente (o tal vez no fue construida nunca, sino fabricada y luego abolida por el poeta, como dice Aristóteles)..."


    "...Pero la muralla -dice Homero- fue construida en el último Período; o quizás ninguna muralla fue construida y la erección y destrucción de ella, como dice Aristóteles, sean debido a la invención del poeta (Homero)..."


    Conclusión


    Finalmente, es más que evidente que el texto griego deja bien claro que no se debe aplicar a la Atlántida la misma opinión (de Aristóteles, según Estrabón) sobre las murallas de los Aqueos y Homero. Vemos como incluso Estrabón está de acuerdo (con Posidonio?) en ofrecer credibilidad a la isla Atlántida de Platón, al decir, refiriéndose a Posidonio? ("él (Posidonio?) hace bien en citar la declaración de Platón de que la historia sobre la isla de Atlántida no es un invento"). Por consiguiente, tanto Estrabon -como supuestamente Posidonio- eran de la opinión de que la historia de la Atlántida podría ser cierta, y que es mejor sostener esto, es decir, lo que decía Platón de que se trataba de una "Alêthinon Logon" o "historia verdadera" (Tim. 26e), que decir lo mismo que se dijo del muro de los Aqueos, que había sido una invención de Homero. Entonces... cómo es que hemos pasado a todo lo contrario, es decir, a afirmar en todas las enciclopedias y libros de textos académicos, que Aristóteles negó la existencia de la Atlántida, aplicándose además distintas versiones, cada vez más manipuladas, de su frase sobre los muros de la Troya de Homero, como si también el mismo Aristóteles la hubiera usado para referirse a la Atlántida... Siento una profunda vergüenza ajena por descubrir como se pudo llegar a tal aberrante grado de mala interpretación de un pasaje tan claro y preciso, y sobre todo de cómo hemos sido engañados tan indignamente, y durante tanto tiempo.




    Hasta donde tengo averiguado, al parecer, la principal responsable de esta enorme falacia histórica fue la traducción inglesa "The Geography of Strabo", publicada en 1917 (Loeb Classical Library edition, 1917), pues en esta edición el autor añade una nota, al llegar al punto de la cita sobre la muralla de los Aqueos, sacando la sorprendete e inexplicable conclusión de que "Solon evitó las consecuencias históricas de su ficción hundiendo Atlántida, como hizo Homero haciendo que Poseidón y Apolo eliminaran con una inundación la muralla construida por los Aqueos" (ver "The Geography of Strabo", published in Vol. I of the Loeb Classical Library edition, 1917. Book II Chapter 3, Note 123). No obstante seguiré indagando, ya que es posible que ese tremendo "error de interpretación" (no quiero ser mal pensado) provenga de más atrás.



    Solo esPero que a partir de ahora, aquellos que se autoproclaman "científicos", cuan guardianes celosos de la verdad y la razón, no sigan usando más esa falacia anti-atlantista, atribuida falsamente a Aristóteles como principal argumento para negar el caracter histórico -no mítico- de la historia de la Atlántida de Platón, que cuando menos se reconozca que no existe constancia de que la frase -como tal, aplicada a la Atlántida- haya existido jamás en boca de Aristóteles, y que solamente se podría atribuir, en última instancia a una mera especulación subjetiva de Estrabón o de Posidonio.






    Georgeos Díaz-Montexano
    Georgeos@Antiquos.com
    http://www.Antiquos.com

    http://www.GeorgeosDiazMontexano.com


     



    Continua en el Blog sobre la Atlántida de Platón

  22. #72 Jiamago 25 de oct. 2007

    Ya se fijo fecha para la II Conferencia sobre la Atlántida. Hoy me avisaron por maill los organizadores. EsPero que vayan hispano parlantes esta vez. Será el 10 y 11 de noviembre del 2008 en Atenas. Creo que habrá más tiempo para la difusión, lo que dara mas oportinidad para que los interesado puedan inscribirse.


    También ha comenzado la distribución del libro de la I Conferencia.

  23. #73 Jiamago 12 de abr. 2008

    Sr. Nepocianus:


    Creo que usted se ha equivocado de lugar.  Aquí, en este lugar estamos justamente analizando el tema de la Atlantida, mas allá de lo que usted crea. Además la Confererencia de Grecia, la analiza de modo o manera cientifica.  De hecho esa Conferencia se llama "Congreso científico sobre la Atlántida".


    No creo que que Usted deba enviar a la gente interesada en el tema a otro lado. Están justamente en el lugar correcto.


    Llendo al tema, tenga la impresión que en un año, el debate ha avanzado poco, incluso considerando que han existido importantes descubrimiento en relación con el tema de Atlantis, como los de la doctora Pareschi, que ratifican la catástrofe documentada por Ryan y Pitman y la NASA, desastre que yo identifico con el fin de Atlantis, que como todos saben, postulo que era la antigua tierra de Canaán, una isla en aquella época.

    http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/12/0...ticle=a02n1cie

    "A los datos de Ryan y Pitman sobre el desastre que la destruyó, hoy se suman los datos de la geóloga italiana Maria Teresa Pareschi, quien este año detectó un gigantesco tsunami en el Mediterráneo oriental, provocado por un gran derrumbe del volcán Etna, en las mismas fechas de Ryan y Pitman y que yo establezco para su colapso, que golpeó brutalmente la zona. En fin, los datos abundan en todos los campos de la ciencia, la arqueología y la historia."

    http://www.desenfocados.cl/joomla/in...=633&Itemid=44

    También hay importantes nuevos trabajos que apuntan a la estrechísima relación entre la mitología, los antiguos centros ceremoniales y la astronomía, ya sea tanto en América como en el Viejo Medio Oriente y Egipto, que según algunos estudiosos tiene una raíz común en un "antiquísimo" Medio Oriente. Hoy este tema es abordado, aún con muchos temores y prejuicios, por la arqueoastronomía.

    Aquí va dos sitios por si acaso... hay otros mucho mejores

    http://www.iac.es/gabinete/difus/ciencia/annia/arq1.htm

    http://www.arqueoastronomia.com/contenido/index2.html

    A fines de año pasado (22 de noviembre 2007) salió esta noticia en la prensa española, que vuelve a reitarar lo que yo señalo en mi teoría:


    Cita:







    La 'inundación' de Noé expandió la agricultura por todo el continente europeo
    miércoles, 21 de noviembre de 2007
    España, (ORBITA).- Cuenta el Génesis que en un lejano pasado hubo un gran diluvio que inundó toda la tierra y sólo gracias al Arca de Noé se logró salvar la Humanidad. Ahora los científicos han encontrado pruebas de que de hace más de 8.000 años, un inmenso trozo de hielo se desprendió en el Atlántico Norte y provocó una subida de hasta 1,4 metros en el Mediterráneo.

    Como consecuencia, el Mar Negro se inundó de agua salada y hubo un gran desplazamiento de población entre los primeros campesinos humanos, que hicieron posible una temprana expansión de la agricultura por el resto de Europa.

    Esta es la principal conclusión del estudio realizado por investigadores de las universidades de Exeter (Reino Unido) y de Wollongong (Australia), publicado en la revista 'Quaternary Science Reviews'. Los exPertos, bajo la dirección del profesor británico Chris Turney, relacionan con una inundación global el derrumbe del inmenso hielo de Laurentide, en Norteamérica, que supuso el mayor aumento de agua dulce en el planeta de los últimos 100.000 años y que tuvo lugar hace entre 8.740 y 8.160 años.

    Por aquel entonces, en Oriente Próximo y en las zonas alrededor del Mar Negro había comunidades neolíticas de agricultores. Aquellos primeros granjeros preferían cultivar en las zonas inundables de los ríos y a las orillas de los lagos, dado que eran áreas seguras en Periodos de sequía. En el Holoceno, el Mar Negro era un lago de agua dulce.

    Con el deshielo del Laurentide, el nivel de los mares aumentó hasta 1,4 metros, suficiente para que rebasara el Estrecho del Bósforo, que separaba el Mediterráneo del lago. Como consecuencia, hace unos 8.200 años, el Mar Negro aumentara su volumen y se convirtió en salado, como muestran los restos de moluscos hallados en el fondo.

    Las comunidades que vivían en sus orillas fueron las más vulnerables. Ya no podían cultivar. Chris Turney y sus colegas estiman que llegaron a inundarse hasta 72.700 kilómetros cuadrados en la época de la máxima inundación, que habría durado unos 34 años.

    Desplazamiento humano
    El mismo fenómeno afectó también a las costas del Mediterráneo (Europa suroriental, Chipre u Oriente Próximo), donde el agua cubrió unos 1.120 kilómetros cuadrados, según sus estimaciones.

    Todo ello provocó, sobre todo en Europa del Este, que hasta 145.000 Personas tuvieran que emigrar en busca de tierras de cultivo más propicias, y lo hicieron hacia el oeste, donde entonces habitaban cazadores y recolectores. En concreto, se han encontrado asentamientos neolíticos en toda la costa mediterránea, lo que sugiere que las migraciones fueron a través del mar.

    Su llegada produjo un cambio social acelerado. «La influencia de nómadas que venían de áreas inundadas supuso un impulso muy importante para transformar la forma de vida», argumenta Turney.

    «Aquellos sucesos podrían haberse transmitido de generación en generación como el recuerdo de un gran diluvio. Debieron sentir como que el mundo entero estaba inundado y aquello pudo ser el origen de la historia del Arca de Noé», asegura Turney.

    El investigador recuerda que esta situación se puede repetir hacia el año 2050, cuando, debido al calentamiento global, está previsto que el nivel del mar suba de nuevo. «Para los millones de Personas que viven cerca de las costas, no es un presagio nada bueno», augura el científico británico. (ROSA M. TRISTÁN)



    http://agenciaorbita.com/index.php?o...=1584&Itemid=1

    Esto son datos cientificos  ¿o no señor Nepocianus?


    EsPero que haya alguién todavía que le interese el tema...


     

  24. #74 Jiamago 12 de abr. 2008

    A lo anterior quiero agregar que en diciembre y enero del 2006, Kathryn Bard descubrió un antiguo puerto egipcio que ratifica la existencia de un extendido e importante comercio muy arcaico en el mar Rojo, acompañado de muestras de una alta tecnología náutica.


    Estos descubrimientos reafirma mi punto que el mar Rojo fue el principal mar donde se desarrollo la navegación mucho antes que en el Mediterráneo, y que esto llevó, entre otros aspectos, a que Platón confundiera el Mar Rojo con el Mediterráneo, tal como yo señalo.

    También, lo que acabo de exponer, sobre la migración de agricultores, ratifica la existencia de una ola humana en movimiento, como dice el mito, Pero que viene del lado contrario de lo que se piensa por las confusiones de los mares. Esta viene de una mar empantanado, el Mar Muerto, el verdadero mar de Atlantis.


    Esta ola invasora de pueblos que proviene desde el oriente, es de origen semítico (atlantes según el mito) que debieron entrar en conflicto con otros pueblos, varios de ellos indoeuropeos (“griego” según el mito).


    Es importante destacar que los “invasores” eran marinos y agricultores, tal como señala el mito. Y esta ocurrió también en la fecha que yo señalo.


    Este dato no es menor: la información científica nos ratifica que había navegación hace 7.500 años en el Mediterráneo Oriental y que era lo suficientemente poderosa como para mover cientos de miles de Personas.


    En este marco general de los avances, ninguna de las otras teorías que existen han mostrado avances respaldado por la ciencia.


    Robert Sarmast, lo intentó y fracasó, porque su “muro sumergido” era solo una roca natural fragmentada, según su propia investigación.


    Todo este análisis ya estaba en mi libro de hace 5 años, basado en muchas otras evidencias.


    Se puede comprobar en http://www.lulu.com/content/1067520

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