Realizada por: Dingo
Al Druida: A todos los Druidas
Formulada el martes, 04 de enero de 2005
Número de respuestas: 109
Categoría: Lingüística

Origen de "bosque"


Quisiera preguntar a los druidas sobre el origen de la raíz que da bosque/bosco/bois, según la Asuri de origen incierto. ¿Está relacionado el topónimo Vosgos? Gracias

Respuestas

    Tijera Pulsa este icono si opinas que la información está fuera de lugar, no tiene rigor o es de nulo interés.
    Tu único clic no la borarrá, pero contribuirá a que la sabiduría del grupo pueda funcionar correctamente.

  1. #1 jeromor miércoles, 05 de enero de 2005 a las 01:12

    Según Coromines es palabra que el castellano toma en el s. XV del catalán u occitano bosc, documentado ya en el s. IX. Es común a las hablas del C y N de Italia (s. Ix) y lenguas germániucas (s. XI). el origen es incierto, acasoprerromanao.


  2. #Gracias Dingo AGRADECIMIENTO

    Muchas gracias Jeromor.

  3. #2 Dingo viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 18:34

    Bien, hace tiempo que lancé está pregunta, y veo que el origen de la palabreja es bastante oscuro. Propongo su relación con el teónimo galo Vosegus, deidad protectora del bosque de Los Vosgos (quizá debiera decir, "valga la redundancia" :-)) ¿Es posible esa evolución? Y no puedo obviar el nombre de un bichejo mitológico asturiano: el Busgosu, y preguntarme por el origen de éste nombre. Resulta que se trata de una entidad con características, entre otras, de deidad protectora de la naturaleza, el típico buen salvaje. En Cantabria hay un personaje muy similar, pero su nombre es Musgoso, palabra que con toda seguridad deriva de "musgo" (lat. muscus). Resulta que ambos, Busgoso y Musgoso, están relacionados con el musgo, el primero por tener el cuerpo cubierto de él, y el segúndo por llevar puesta una zamarra hecha de dicho material. De ahí, muscosus/musgoso. En el caso asturiano, tenemos que también recibe el nombre de Mofosu (en asturiano, "mofu" es "musgo"). Sin embargo "Busgoso" tiene otra raíz. Se trataría de una raíz evidentemente prerromana, y utilizada en el mundo céltico. Por cierto (por comentarlo), ¿quizá lejana relación con el vasco "basa"?


  4. #3 giorgiodieffe viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 18:43

    Mira: en Piamonte el musgo (que en italiano es muschio pr. musquio) se dice "mùfa". En Ligure de Genova se dice "mussa" (pero seria tambien el nombre de una parte feminina que podeis imaginar) :-) No existen relaciones entre musgo y bosque..


  5. #4 Dingo viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:05

    O sea, que cuando en Génoza dices "la musa dell'amore" se arma la carcajada padre, no?


  6. #5 Dingo viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:05

    O sea, que cuando en Génova dices "la musa dell'amore" se arma la carcajada padre, no?


  7. #6 DUBIERGOS viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:09

    Probablemente emparentada con bosque en Asturiano existe la palabra "viesca" o "biesca" con el significado de bosque muy espeso, bosque en un monte... y que da lugar a topónimos como La Biesca Urdiales en la ladera norte de El Sueve


  8. #7 silmarillion viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:15

    raiz germanica wid, bosque/ madera. wudu, wood, vosgo.


  9. #8 silmarillion viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:39

    la raiz IE es u╦idhu- :) árbol alemán baum. raiz widu/z. esta raiz tambien da el nobre Witto = Guido


  10. #9 silmarillion viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:45

    en frances bois


  11. #10 jeromor viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 20:16

    Si hay una raíz indoeuropea vidhu> protocelta *widu, `madera, árbol', sabiendo que D y S son sonidos próximos, es posible que *bosKo, con el genitivo masculino, vesca> biesca, con el genitivo femenino.


  12. #11 silmarillion viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 20:33

    si jeromor, la raiz es la que señalo arriba u╦idhu- (pokorny) reitero en ingles da el actual wood, madera y bosque. deriva del middle english wudu, del old english widu, de la raiz germanica widuz. da el aleman baum, el frances bois y apellidos como Guido, Guitry, Guy, Guionet.


  13. #12 Dingo viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 20:36

    Gracias a todos.


  14. #13 J.J.Guijarro viernes, 04 de febrero de 2005 a las 20:36

    Creo que teniendo en cuenta el tema galo no estaría de más recordar que en afrikaans, el boschjesman (o bosquimano) es el hombre que vive en el bosque. El Afrikaans no es sino una derivación del neerlandés -u holandés- que se habla en Sudáfrica. Se trata de una lengua (la holandesa) germánica llevada por francos y sajones a los Paises Bajos. Así que no creo tan descabellado el postulado de Dingo aceca del teónimo.


  15. #14 silmarillion sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 00:03

    como apunta guijarro, tambien el holandes bosch tiene el mismo origen, y el inglés bush, como el apellido del perínclito jorge arbusto :)


  16. #15 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 11:25

    Dingo: "la musa dell'amore" en italiano no se pronuncia como "mussa"..."mussa" no podia que ser pronunciada mas dulce :-) "musa", al contrario, se pronuncia z dulce. silma: arbusto (que es asì tambien en italiano)= en ingles "bush"...pero solo porqué en frances es "buisson"...en mi dialecto "bussun", con la primera "u" pronunciada a la alemana. Siempre hablando de vegetales...the word "forrest/forrete/foresta/floresta" COMMENTARY TO THE GERMANIC LAWS AND MEDIAEVAL DOCUMENTS By LEO WIENER Professor of Slavic Languages and Literature At Harvard University Cambridge Harvard University Press London: Humphrey Milford Oxford University Press 1915 In 390 Valentinianus published an edict relegating the monks to the "vast" solitudes, vastae solitudines. (118) The sentence "deserta loca et vastae solitudines" which is used in it is based on the classical juxtaposition of "desertum et vastum," but, although the law was partially repealed in 392, this vastum remained as the expression for monastic solitudes. Vastae solitudines occurs with great frequency during the founding of monasteries (119) and similar expressions may be quoted in endless number. (120) Most popular was the expression vastina, (121) hence vasta "uncultivated territory subject to settlement" (122) gives way to wastina, (123) of which the largest, the Wastina of Vendôme, is mentioned as early as 834, (124) while a great number of localities in France are named Gastina, Gastinetum, Gastinesium, Gastineti, Vastina, Vastum. (125) The words vasta, vastina have entered into OHG. in almost unchanged forms, (126) but there are also many variant forms, wuostî, wôstî, wuostinna, wuastinna, wôstinna, wuostunna, wôstenja, wostinnî, wôstunnja, OSaxon wôsti, wôstunnia, OFrisian wôste, wôstene, wêstene, AS. wêste, wêsten. From OHG. wuostî, wôstunnja, etc., we get OSlavic pusta, pustyni, pustynja "wilderness," to which belongs a large group of words in all the Slavic languages, including the verb pustiti "to let." Lettish posts "devestation," Prussian pausto "wild" show that OHG. wuôsta must have had an intermediate form fôsta, to produce post-, pust- of the Balto-Slavic languages. That such a form actually existed in proved by the Celtic languages. In OIr. fás "desert" shows its direct descent from vasta, but in the other Celtic languages the long a has caused the insertion of an r. In Welsh we have gorest, gores "what lies open, unenclosed, waste," in Breton frost, fraost "deserted, waste, uncultivated." That forst, frost is very old in Celtic is proved by Frankish forestis which is first recorded in the year 556 in a donation of Childebert I, where forestis refers, not to the forest, but to the fisheries (127) and is, like gualdo and gaio, connected with nostra. (128) The forestarii who held sway in the forestis, however different they may have been from the gualdatores, like these had the same charge of the fisheries, the capture of poachers, supervision of borders. (129) Gualdus made its appearance in Germany only after Charlemagne's Italian expedition in 776, and at first in a document written at Vicenza, (130) after which it took the place of vasta and forestis. (131) Like gualdus, so also forestis became finally identical with "forest." The Germanic languages have no words derived from forestis except OHG. forst, uorst, which in itself shows that it is a borrowed word. From OHG. it has passed into all the Slavic languages, OSlav. hvrast "sarmentum, bush, oak," Bulg. hrast, hrastalek, hraste "bush," fraste "noise," Pol. chrost "noise, bushes, faggots," chwrastac "to rustle," hence Magyar haraszt "oak forest," Rum. hrêst "bush." (132) On Romance territory France is especially rich in such derivatives. Breton frost, fraost is strongly represented in the north, (133) occurring in the Latinized form frostum in the eleventh century (134) and somewhat later as frussatum in England. (135) Since the fourteenth century we have the French forms fro, frau, fros, froc, frox, frouz, flot, flos, etc. "terre inculte et abandonnée, chemin rompu, large chemin public près d'une ville, place communale plus large que le chemin mais soumise à la même police," (136) and frestiz, fraities "terre en friche, terre qui n'est pas cultivée." (137) Fr. floc has produced Spanish llueco, lleco in the same sense. In northern Italy we in the eighth century meet with frascarium "uncultivated, overgrown land" (138) and later with frascata, fraschetum in the same sense, while frasca, both in Italy and the Provence, is equivalent to "faggots." (139) The change from frast- to frasc- is the same as from frostum to frusca. (140) In France there is a great variety of derivations from this frasc-, frescherium, frescheium, fresceium, freschium, frecum, frichia, frichium, friscum, fresca, (141) which have survived in Fr. friche "uncultivated ground," but the old vastum, guastum, changed to gascum, has produced the more popular gascaria, gascheria, gasquerer, now jachière, jacherer. The dialects have a very large number of words which are derived from frast-, frasc- (142) and Jura frachous "bois cassant pour allumer le feu," Morvan freucher "battre, froisser, rouler," Ital. frascare "to strike," esser per le fratte "être dans la frape," show that Fr. fracas frapper are developments of this group, semasiologically evolved from the idea of beating the bush, and identical with the Slavic group, where hvrast mean both "bush" and "noise." The connotation "fresh" has been evolved from this group in an interesting manner. The public domain and private forests had since earliest times been used for the pasturage of swine and sheep, the owner of such domain or forest claiming for this right a yearly tithe. The Visigothic laws speak of the swine tithe in the seventh century as a law quoted as Antiqua, (143) and as early as the sixth century this decima porcorum was turned over by the Merovingians to the Church, (144) while in 653 it was distinctly mentioned that this decima porcorum of the Church was collected from the swine pasturing in the forestis. (145) This tithe was levied on the increase of the flock, as is distinctly mentioned in the emphyteutic contracts at Lucca, where the pigs and lambs so delivered were to be one year old. (146) If we compare the obligations of the peasants of Saint Gall with those of the Lucchese documents, we find a very close resemblance, only that instead of "porco annotino" we here get the expression friskinga. (147) The etymologists derive this friskinga from G. frisch, but the latter is entirely wanting in Gothic, occurs but late in OHG. as frisc, in AS. as fersc, is in ONorse fersk, frisk unquestionably borrowed from the German, just like Lith. prëskas, Slavic prês'n "fresh, unleavened." At the same time OHG. friscing, frushinc, frinscing, frinskinga, etc., means "victima, hostia, holocausta," where there is not the slightest reference to "fresh." Friscing is the "fresh," one year old pig, offered as a tithe to the owner of the forest and later, when the tithe was turned over to the church, as "offering to the church." Its name was derived from frisca, frusca, etc., "wasteland," (which, as we have seen, took the place of forestis,) because, according to the law of 653, the decima porcorum was collected from the pigs pasturing in the forestis. But friscing, a German derivative from friscum "wasteland" is identical with annotino of the Lucchese documents, that is, it was at the same time considered to mean, "one year old, fresh pig." Thus frisco, fresco, frasco (Fr. frais) came to mean "fresh," not only in the Romance languages, but also in German.


  17. #16 Dingo sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 11:46

    Ya ya, si lo de la pronunciación ya lo sabía. Pero, bueno, pensé que la propia similitud de las palabras podía dar juego. A lo mejor me equivoqué. En fin.


  18. #17 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 11:54

    ARBUSTUM VITATUM Pliny tells in his Natural History the following about the cultivation of the vine: "The experience of ages has sufficiently proved that the wines of the highest quality are only grown upon vines attached to trees, and that even then the choicest wines are produced by the upper part of the tree, the produce of the lower part being more abundant; such being the beneficial result of elevating the vine. It is with a view to this that the tree employed for this purpose are selected. In the first rank of all stands the elm, with the exception of the Atinian variety, which is covered with too many leaves; and next come the black popular, which is valued for a similar reason, being not so densely covered with leaves. Most people, too, by no means hold the ash in disesteem, as also the olive, if it is not overshadowed with branches.......They must not be touched with the knife before the end of three years, and the branches are preserved, on each side in its turn, the pruning being done in alternate years. In the sixth year the vine is united to the tree. In Italy beyond the Padus, in addition to the trees already mentioned, they plant for their vines (arbustat agros) the cornel, the opulus, the linden, the maple, the ash, the yoke-elm, and the quercus; while in Venetia they grow willows for the purpose, on account of the humidity of the soil." (1) Columella is more specific as regards the purpose of planting certain kinds of trees: "The Atinian elm thrives much better, and is much taller, than our Italian elm; and yields a sweeter leaf, and more agreeable to oxen; which if you feed cattle constantly with, and afterwards begin to give them leaves of that other kind, it makes the oxen nauseate their food. Therefore, if it can be done, we will plant all our land with this one kind of the Atinian elm; but, if this cannot be done we will take care, in laying out our rows, to plant an equal number of our own Italian, and of Atinian elms alternately: so we shall always make use of mixt leaves; and the cattle, being allured by this seasoning, as it were, will more eagerly eat up that due quantity of food, which is allotted them. But the poplar tree seems to nourish the vine most of any; next to that the elm; and, after that, the ash tree also. The poplar tree (opulus) is rejected by most people, because it yields a thin leaf, and not proper for cattle. The ash tree which is most acceptable to goats and sheep, and not useless for oxen, is rightly planted in rough, rugged, and mountainous places, where the elm thrives but indifferently. The elm is preferred by most people, because it both suffers the vine without any inconveniency to it, and yields a most agreeable fodder for oxen, and comes up and thrives very well in various kinds of soils. Therefore let him, who has a mind to plant a great number of trees for supporting vines, prepare nurseries of elms and ashes in that manner I have described." (2) "The vines must be set in the farthermost part of the trench, and their firm-wood stretched along the trench, and erected to the tree, and fenced with rails against the injuries of cattle." (3) Such a plantation was known as arbustum, and, because of its use in trailing vines, it is very frequently mentioned together with vitis. (4) The same method is still pursued in Italy, and up to the twelfth century arbustum vitatum remained a common expression in the documents of southern Italy as a description of a vine-covered grove. (5) That this is not merely a stereotyped phrase, such as is common in the documents of that time, is proved by the very definite description of the duties required from a tenant who took possession of land on the basis of an emphyteutic contract. Not only was he to take care of the existing trees, of whose fruits he was to furnish the owner a certain part, but he was also to plant new groves and take care of them. (6) About Naples we find since the tenth century the expressions terra arbustata, pecia de arbusto, originally in exactly the same connotation as arbustum vitatum, (7) but in the eleventh century they are used more generally in the sense of "woodland," as opposed to fields, (8) while in the north of Italy we never hear of arbustum, arbustata, but only of buscalia, buschiva, which is there common from the beginning of the tenth century. (9) Boscalea is already mentioned in a document of the year 753, but this document is from an apograph of the eleventh century and certainly spurious. (10) In the documents of the tenth and eleventh centuries buscalia refers to plots that are neither fields, forests, nor wastelands, and since a terra buscoliva is especially mentioned as being wooded, it is certain that buscalia is a generic name for a brush grown tract of land. (11) Another form for it is buscaria, (12) and at the same time busco, bosco makes its appearance in Sardinia and in the north, (13) and the juxtaposition of this with "silva" shows that it again means "brush grown land." But as there is also mention of plowed land lying in the bosco, it apparently was sometimes reclaimed, but the usual reference is to "bosco comuno," the common pasture land. In pre-Carolingian times not the slightest trace of bosco is to be found anywhere in Italy. It is first recorded in the north in 910 and slowly spreads as far as Naples. In the beginning of the tenth century the word was still new, and in 904-5 we hear for the first time of certain obligations in the arbustum called arbustaria, arbustercia. (14) It is clear that these produced the chronologically later recorded buscaria, buscalia, busco, bosco, but this may be proved even without the presence of these laws. The laws being written in Frankish style, we shall have to look to France for the origin of the words and the development of their meanings. In a French document of 870 we find a locality Arbustellum (15) and soon after Ad illum Boscum, Alboscum, (16) while in the tenth century and later mention is almost exclusively made of places Bosco, Boscaria, Boschetto, (17) not only in France but also in Spain. (18) Ad illum Boscum is merely an amplification of Alboscum, and this is a corruption of Arbustum, but this cannot be insisted upon, since local names ad illum (locum) are not uncommon. These localities lay in or near the arbustum, and we must now ascertain how -bustum came to be changed to boscum. Abbo, of the Church of S. Germain of Paris, wrote towards the end of the ninth or in the beginning of the tenth century, a poem "De bellis Parisiacae Urbis," where, referring to the year 886, he speaks of the enormous masses of cattle which were gathered in the aula of S. Germain, which was thus turned into a bostar. The aula here means the yard or enclosure of the church, and what Abbo means to say is that the yard was changed into a cattle enclosure. (19) Bostar stands for bustaria, as a result of a confusion with bos "ox" and stare "to stand" and Greek boustasion, (20) while Papias confused bostar with bustum "a place where cattle are burned," (21) but Matthew of Paris in the thirteenth century employed bostar correctly in the sense of "cattle yard." (22) In Spain we occasionally find in the eighth century arbusta for such an enclosure, (23) but far more frequently we meet there with bustum and bustellum, a forest enclosure on the outskirts of the estate, (24) generally surrounded by a hedge (25) and used as a cattle yard. (26) The herds pasturing in such a corral were of a given size, for the tax for pasturing was figured by the busto. (27) There were, however, also very extensive bustos, with their own appurtenances and lands. (28) We also find the forms bustare, (29) bustaria, (30) and bustarega, (31) and in the latter case it is distinctly mentioned that they were enclosed pastures. If we now compare the Spanish forms bustum, bustare, bustello, bustariega with the Italian busco, buscaria, buscalia, and with arbusta, arbustaria, arbustericia of the Italian documents of 904-5, the identity of these becomes at once obvious, and it is clear that arbustaria, arbustericia refer to the tax for pasturing which the proprietor of the forest may exact. Fortunately we possess in the Fuero general of Navarra a detailed account of the organisation of such a pasture. Although the Fuero was written down in the thirteenth century, the laws and practices described there refer to Visigothic times. The first title of the sixth book deals with the pasture, which is here called vedado and bustalizia. (32) A vedado was a horse or cow pasture in what formerly had been meadow land. It was laid out by common consent of the infanzons and peasants, by measuring off the land twelve times in all four directions with the perch "of the royal see." Such a perch was seven cubits and a clenched fist long, and was at the end provided with an iron point weighing two pounds. (33) If the land was really measured with the perch, it produced an enclosure of about an acre; but if echar means "to throw," the enclosure would become many times larger. Such a vedado was closed from beginning of February until the end of December and afterward was open for all cattle. The common ground in the forest between two villages where the pigs and the cattle pastured was called puerto, and the enclosure itself was known as busto or bustalizia, which was produced in the same way as the vedado, only that it was determined by the hammerthrow in the following manner: The measurer sat down in the middle of the space set aside for an enclosure and threw a sharp axe with a handle a cubit long twelve times in each direction. It is not likely that each throw netted more than twenty feet for it was accomplished under the acrobatic feat of holding the right ear with the left hand and casting the axe from between that arm and the breast. (34) The hammerthrow has been frequently recorded in Germany since the twelfth century, and since Grimm (35) a poetic, religious or legal German custom has been theorised out of it. The identical Navarrese custom goes back to a sensible Roman method of measurement by the decempeda pertica. Twelve perticae of ten (or twelve) feet square formed in Rome the unit of surface, two of which were equal to a iugerum. (36) In the Navarrese custom we have, therefore a survival of the Roman law which was intended for the provinces. Here as there the "decempeda" had to be "cast" twelve times, as in the Roman measurement, and seven cubits were just about ten feet. In Navarre the perch had to be obtained from the sied del Rey "the royal see," but in reality this is a popular transformation of the Roman regio, the local court, where the land questions were settled. (37) Where the ignorant peasants could not help themselves with straight measurements, in the forest or the swamp, there they had recourse to the hammerthrow, and by the employment of the acrobatic feat they managed to obtain a fairly equitable mensuration. Hence the hammerthrow is as much a Roman institution as the Scandinavian solskipt, which has been shown to be the Roman solis divisio. (38) We have an Aragonese law of the year 1247 which coincides with the law of the busto, but here busto, understood as bostar, has further been corrupted to boalare, (39) that is, bostar "a place for oxen," has produced boale and boalare. In the Limousin this boalare has in the ninth century given rise to baccalaria, (40) as though it were a place for cows. These baccalariae naturally lay far away from the village and were left in charge of the poorer or unmarried peasants, hence we get baccalarius "bachelor," which has spread over Europe from the south of France. That this derivation is the real one is proved by the synonymous German Hagestolz, OHG. hagustalt, AS. hagusteald "bachelor," ONorse haukstalda "famulus, mercenarius, agricola liber," where the first part of the word has distinct reference to "forest," that is, the "bachelor" was he who lived in the forest, where the busto was located. It is not easy to ascertain what the second half of the word is derived from, but it looks as though in German it proceeded from the same Spanish bustalizia which produced a form bustalt, understood as bus-stalt, in which the first part, for buscus, gave way to the popular haga. It is certainly remarkable that there should be in German a similar confusion as there is in the Romance busto, bustal, bostar, boale, boalaria, baccalaria. Thus it appears that the Roman institution of the arbustum vitatum has survived in Spain only as an enclosure which was not thrown open to all in the summer. Arbustum, here contracted to bustum, has the special meaning of "closed vineyard," because any other pasture was free for all neighbors, according to the Roman custom, while the vineyard could be held against others so long as the grapes were not yet gathered in. This institution of "enclosures" has been of enormous economic consequences in Spain, whence it passed over to the rest of Europe, bringing with it an exceedingly large linguistic family. Unfortunately there are, in this group, a number of contaminations which make it the most prolific and the most difficult of any to treat. I shall confine myself only to the most obvious derivations. In Basque we have bost-, brost-, brosk- for "bush"---"bosta buisson, brosta haie, broussaille, et aussi fourré, lieu couvert de broussailles de bruyeres, broka détritus, debrit d'objets sans valeur, qu'on passe dehors avec le balais." Here and in the Romance languages we find not only the original bust-, but also brust-, etc. This latter form may have arisen in the same way as frost from vast, or from arbust- by metathesis. We shall now turn to the Latin sources in France. We have already seen that buscus, boscus here takes the place of Span. bustum, and to this must be added buschus, buschetus, boccus, bochetus, which appear only late. There arose very early the necessity of distinguishing the standing, green timber from the firewood and the faggots, since one of the privileges in the forest consisted in the permission to cut a certain number of trees a year for building purposes and to gather dead wood for fuel. Hence such a right is called boscairare, buscare, buscalhare, boscare. (41) The building timber was called boscus viridis or vivus, to distinguish it from the faggots, boscus siccus or mortuus, which also included certain standing trees that were used for fuel, (42) hence we get the specific statement, "boscus vivus ad aedificandum, mortuus ad calefaciendum, comburendum, ardendum." (43) The laws distinctly mention that the dead wood is carefully to be "sought" with wooden hooks, in order to break down the dead branches, hence we get in Spain buscare "to seek." To separate more clearly and briefly the standing timber from the dead wood, boscus was employed only for the first, while the latter became known in the feminie, as bosca, busca, buschia, buca, bucha, buchia, buga, but more commonly bruscale, bruscia, brozia, brossa, brossia, brucia, broca, bruga, brua, broa, bruera, brueria, brugeria, brugaria, and even bronda, branda, bropa, branca, branchia. It is not difficult to explain this great variety of forms. Endnotes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________ 1. XVII. 35. I quote from Bostock and Riley's translation (London 1855, vol III, p. 512) back 2. De re rustica, v. 6. Quoted from L. Junius Moderatus Columella Of Husbandry, London 1745, p. 226 f. back 3. Ibid., p. 231. back 4. "Arbusta, ubi traduces possent fieri vitium," Varro, De re rustica, I. 8. 3; "cum me arbustum videre.....atque......vitis incidere falce novellas," Vergilius, Eclogae, III. 10; "jam vinctae vites, iam falcem arbusta reponunt," Vergilius, Georgica, II. 416; "De arbustivis vitibus....si arbustum to habere delectat," Palladius, III. 10. More quotations are to be found in the Thesaurus linguae latinae, sub arbustum 2. back 5. "Arbustu vitatu" (801), Codex diplomaticus cavensis, Neapoli 1873, vol. I, p. 5 (803), p. 6; "terra mea qui est arbustu et vitatu" (824), ibid., p. 15; "cum arbustu bitatus" (848), ibid., p. 34; "terra mea qui est arbustu bitatu" (848), ibid., p. 35 (850), p. 40; "ipsa terra cum arbustu vitatu" (853), ibid., p. 45, etc. back 6. "Ut a die presenti incipiamus exinde cappilare ipsos arbores et laborare eos, et ipsum laborem quod exinde fecerimus demus vobis exinde medietatem in predicto loco. ipsa vero alia ligna que non sunt de laborem quodcumque exinde fecerimus medietatem vobis exinde demus. ipsa vero terra incipiamus cultare et pastinare adque implere eos totum de tigillis et insurculare debeamus de ipsa zinzala" (10. cent), Camera, Memorie storico-diplomatiche dell' antica città e ducato di Amalfi, Salerno 1871, vol. I, p. 164 f.: "quomodo vinea, et terrua vacua se meruerit laborare, et cultare, et ipsi arborea vitati qui jam. ibidem plantati sunt, quomodo arbores vitati se meruerint cultare et conciare....Et presente debeant arbustare integra superius dicta indicata prima petia de terra juxta rationem, et arbores ipsae vitare vites arbusti, excepta ipsa praefata Curte. Et amodo usque in decem anni completi nostri Monasterii integra jam dicta de terra prima petia arbustata rationabiliter, et arbores ipsos vitatos, excepto ipsa praefata Curte, cum ipsis arbores in ipsa vinea levaverint licentiam et potestatem habeant incidere. Etiam in antea vinum, quod de ipsum arbustum Deus annualiter dederit, et frugium de subter dividere debeant cum parte suprascripti nostri Monasterii" (973), Muratori, Scriptores, vol. I, p. 457; and similarly pp. 454, 455; "et siat factum et plenum amodo et usque ad completis annis tres et factus siat arbustus seu ipsa....nemus et pergula et ubive terre de dicto pastinemus tigillos et insurculemus eos de ipsa castanea zenzala" (1104), C. Minieri Riccio, Saggio di codice diplomatico formato sulle antiche scritture dell' archivio di stato di Napoli, Napoli 1878, vol. I, p. 16. back 7. "Quale tempore ipse arbustum fuerit totus pastenatus et vitatus," Regii Neapolitani archivi monumenta, Napoli 1849, vol. III, p. 158; "vene et diligenter lavorare et excolere debemus ....et vites in memorata petia de terra arbustata omni annuo ponere et plantare," ibid., p. 157: "laborandi et arbustandi quamque seminandi cacuminas et vites ibidem ponendi et plantare," ibid., p. 32. back 8. "Terra arbustata et campores" (1015), ibid., vol. IV, p. 75; "petia arbustata et campese" (1021), ibid., p. 157. back 9. This in itself should suffice to prove the derivation of the first from the second, but the law-mad philologists do not recognise documentary evidence. They insist that Ital. bosco is to be derived from Gr. boskh, which is not only at variance with documentary facts, but also contradicts the phonetic laws which they maintain. Boskh means "fodder, grazing ground" and never "grove." In a Byzantine papyrus of the year 616 boskh stands for "meadow grass," "mhte mhn dunasqai ton auton iwannhn fagein ek thj boskhj twn autwn arourwn oporimwn ghdiwn all epi tw ta kthnh tou autou monasthriou fagein thn authn boskhn" (F. G. Kenyon, Greek Papyri in the British Museum, London 1898, vol. II, p. 238 f.), and this prohibition is strikingly like the very ancient one from Amorgos "probata de mh boskein eij to temenoj mhden" (Dareste, Haussoulier, Reinach, Recueil des inscriptions juridiques grecques, Paris 1895, p. 205 n.). In the Basilica the caption "De pascuis publicis et privatis" is once rendered by "Peri boskwn kai libadwn, kai leimwnwn" and once by "Peri nomwn htoi boskwn." (C. G. E. Heimbach, Basilicorum libri LX, Lipsiae 1850, vol. V, p. 147), and it is clear from the juxtaposition of boskh and leimwn, libaj, nomh that the reference is to meadows, even as boskn and libadi are identical in Modern Greek. Besides, the Greek word having entered the west only in the ninth century, it should have appeared there as vosca, not as boscus. Hence the derivation of bosco from boskh is a sheer impossiblity. back 10. Cod. Langob., col. 30 n. back 11. "Silvas stalarias et besgeas" (910), ibid., col. 751; "petiola terre cum buscalia super se" (961), ibid., col. 1107; "cum aeris suarum seu terris arabilis et pratis silvis et buscaleis atque gerboras" (1009), Codex diplomaticus Cremonae (HPM., ser. II, vol. XXI), Augustae Turinorum 1895, vol. I, p. 45, and again pp. 48, 49, 59 (boscalea) et passim; "de silvis e stellariis seu castanetis, buscaliis adque gerbosas" (941), Bullettino dell' istituto italiano, N° 21, p. 160; "de silvis e stellariis seu gerbosas, busgalias" (943), ibid., p. 158; "de silvis et stellareis et buscaleis" (1015), Codice diplomatico padovano dal secolo sesto a tutto l'undecimo, Venezia 1877, p. 135, and again pp. 140, 155, 197; "petia una de terra buscoliva cum silva superabente" (1096), ibid., p. 343; "terras arabiles et prata et garbas et buscalivas" (1100), ibid., p. 358; "una pecia de terra cum buscalia super se" (961), F. Odorici, Storie bresciane, vol. v, p. 14; and again pp. 38, 51 et passim; "petiam terrae aratoria, olivatae, et buschivae" (1221), ibid., vol. VII, p. 97; "terris arabilibus cultis et incultis silvis buschilibus" (991), MGH., Dip. reg. et imp. Ger., vol. I, p. 447; "vineis buscalibus pratis" (1016), ibid., p. 497 and again p. 585. back 12. "Silvis insulis buscariis" (969), MGH., Dip. reg. et imp. Ger., vol. I, p. 540; "prata salecta buscaria" (1020), ibid., vol. III, p. 549; "silvis frascariis buscariis" (1038), Muratori, Antiq., vol. I, col. 447. back 13. "Cum terris cultis et discultis, buschis et silvis" (1002), Codex diplomaticus Sardiniae (in HPM., vol. X) vol. I, p. 147; "terris cultis et incultis, agrestis et domesticis, silvis sive boschis" (1009), ibid., p. 148; "in parte aratoria in parte bosco" (1005), Odorici, op. cit., vol. V, p. 21; "bosco comuno" (1005), HPM., Chartae, vol II, col. 92; "pecia una de bosco" (1040), ibid., col. 137. back 14. "Venationes ac arbusta," L. Schiaparelli, I diplomi di Lodovico III e di Rodolfo II, Roma 1910, p. 60; "nec ullas publicas arbustarias aut redibitiones vel illicitas occasiones sive angarias super inponere audeat vel inferre presumat," L. Schiaparelli, I diplomi di Berengario I, Roma 1903, p. 139; "atque districtum seu arbustericiam aut quamcumque redibitionem publicam quoque modo exigere," ibid., p. 176. back 15. Bouquet, Recueil des historiens des Gaules et de la France, vol. VIII, p. 628. back 16. "Villam nostram quae vocatur Ad illum Boscum" (893), M. Deloche, Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Beaulieu, Paris 1859, p. 217; "in loco qui dicitur Ad illo Bosco" (891), ibid., p. 210; "Alboscum" (970), A. Bernard, Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Savigny, Paris 1853, p. 184. back 17. "Villa quae vocatur Boscus" (1059), Deloche, op. cit., p. 135; "Bosco" (1061), ibid., p. 152; "mansum de Bosco" (1100), ibid., p. 74; "Boscaria" (960), Devic and Vaissete, op. cit., vol. V, col. 238; "Boscheto" (961), ibid., col. 245. back 18. "Locum de Bosco Tellentis" (963), A. de Yepes, Coronica general de la orden de San Benito, vol. VIII, app. 2a; "aplicat ad Busco de Corteças" (1010), F. Sota, Chronica de principes de Asturias y Cantabria, Madrid 1681, p. 654. back 19. "Haec oculis equidem petii sistens super urbis back Moenia, nec visu claudebantur neque ritmo: At quoniam cingi nequeunt pratis, nec ab agris, Efficitur bostar Germani Antistitis aula, Completur tauris, suculis, simisque capellis," Bouquet, Recueil, vol. VIII, p. 15. 20. "Bostar, créche Gallice, a bos et stare. Bouverie, bostar, estable a buefs. Bostar, stabulum, quasi boves stantes," Ducange, sub bostar. back 21. "Bostar, locus ubi comburebantur corpora boum, vel statio boum." back 22. "In vallibus videlicet Moriani quaedam villae, scilicet quinque, cum suis bostaribus, caulis, et molendinis adjacentibus, obrutae sunt," Chronica majora (in edition of H. R. Luard, vol. V, p. 30). back 23. "Arbusta cum suis hibernales" (862), R. Escalona, Historia del real monasterio de Sahagun, Madrid 1782, p. 631. back 24. "De fonte Sombrana usque ad foz de busto, de foz de busto usque ad pinnam rubeam" (804), España sagrada, vol. XXVI, pp. 442, 445; "cum montibus, fontibus, azoreras, bustis, pratis, aqueductibus, etc." (823), ibid., vol. XXXVII, p. 321; "Eclesiam Sancti Emeterii cum Sernis et Bustis de monte Pelio....et Bustos praenominatos Loarrio, et Longe Braneas, et Arrium, et Translectum; in Riosa Ecclesiam Sanctae Mariae, seu Bustos praenominatos tam de tempore verani, quam de tempore iberni usque Portum" (827), ibid., p. 324 f.; "bustello in illa carrale antiqua" (891), ibid., p. 338; "addicimus etiam Ecclesiae vestrae busta praenominata, in territorio Asturiensi, id est, in monte Aramo bustum quod dicunt foios, etc." (891), ibid., p. 341; "item in portus de Caso adsignamus eglesie uestre bustum quem dicunt Troniscum.....et alium bustum in fonte Fascasia" (905), Indice de los documentos del monasterio de Sahagun, de la orden de San Benito, Madrid 1874, p. 2; "bustum....Tronisco in summa portaria.....id est terminos de parte orientali bustum Mencii" (923), ibid., p. 4; "bustum quem uocitant Pinzon qui iacet circa alium quem dicunt Troniscum" (934), ibid., p. 5; "in loco quod dicunt busto de Picones" (930), ibid., p. 113; "in loco quod dicunt busto de Dulcidio" (956), ibid., p. 137; "in Bustello in Villa noua" (1181), ibid., p. 387. back 25. "Bustello medio de sepe" (906), PMH., Dipl. et chart., p. 9. back 26. "Bustos in monte Lene duos cum bacas tres, bustos in Nalare a Sancto Martino in Lotani quatuor, busto in Monte Nigro cum vaccas" (998), España sagrada, vol. XL, p. 409. back 27. "Et omnes qui quesierint pausar cum suo ganado in terminos de Elbora prendant de illis montadigo de grege das oues IIII or carneiros, de busto de uaccas I uaca" (1166), PMH., Leg. et consuet., vol. I, p. 392, et passim. See Index generalis, sub busto. back 28. "In portu de casso adsignamus Eclesiae vestrae Bustum, quem dicunt Troniscum, cum suis, pascuis vel paludibus, et suis furnis ratione servata" (905), R. Escalona, op. cit., p. 378; "juxta Pireneum quoque bustum vaccalem quod de Regenda nuncupatur; alium bustum quod Caulinos dicitur cum suis propriis terris; alium bustum vaccalem quod Maccabes nuncupatur, cum suis pisceis, furnis, et utilitatibus suis; etiam quartum bustum ovile juxta ipsam" (951), España sagrada, vol. XXXIV, p. 454. back 29. "Serra bustare de hac Torubio" (912), Yepes, Coronica general de la orden de San Benito, vol. I, p. 38. back 30. J. Santa Rosa de Viterbo, Elucidario, Lisboa 1865, sub busto. back 31. "Et si fluvius Sancti Dominici levaverit bustaregas abbatis vel espinare, integret se abbas pro eo, et aliud remaneat pro pasto, et dominium sit abbatis" (1209), M. Férotin, Recueil des chartes de l'abbaye de Silos, Paris 1897, p. 123; "que habia antes soto y bustariegas en que solian pacer" (1253), ibid., p. 203; "que el soto con las otras bustariegas queden enteramente al abad para siempre" (1254), ibid., p. 207. back 32. "Aqui conpieza el libro VI° en quoal fabla de paztos," P. Ilarregui y Lapuerta, Fuero general de Navarra, Pamplona 1869, p. 123 ff. back 33. "Si todos los vezinos quisieron fer vedado de nuevo, vayan a la sed del Rey et retiengan el amor del iuvero del Rey et ganen la piertega con su fierro.....Toda piertega de sied deve ser VII cobdos rasos, el ocheno el puyno cerrada en luengo; et deve aver en el fierro dos libros, en el fust de espesura quanto I ombre puede alcanzar con el dedo somero el pulgar cabo el fierro. Et aqueylla piertega sea daveyllano, drecha et lisa et sin corteza, como nasze en el mont; et aqueilla piertega deven aver por los prados de cavayllos et de los buyes. Este ombre que ha a echar la piertega, nos deve remeter nin mover el un pie del logar onde tiene." ibid., p. 124. back 34. "Toda bustalizia deve ser al menos quoanto I ombre puede echar xii vezes a iiii° partes la segur, devese asentar arecho en el medio de la bustalizia; et esta segur que es a echar deve aver el mango un cobdo raso, et el fierro deve avar de la una part agudo et de la otra part esmochado, et teniendo la oreylla diestra con la mano siniestra, deve passar el brazo diestro entre el pezcuezo et el brazo siniestro, et eche quoanto mas podiere echar esta segur, come dicho es de suso," ibid., p. 128. back 35. Deutsche Rechtsaltertümer, pp. 55 ff., 527 ff. back 36. Blume, Lachmann, und Rudorff, Die Schriften der römischen Feldmesser, Berlin 1852, p. 355, and C. Lachmann, Gromatici veteres, Berolini 1848, p. 367 f.: "Actus quadratus undique finitur pedibus CXX ita cxx : cxx : cxx : cxx. Actus duplicatus iugerum facit....iugerum autem constat longitudine duocentorum xl, latitudine cxx; ita cxx : ccxl : cxx: ccxl." back 37. "Regiones enim dicimus intra quarum fines singularum coloniarum aut municipiorum magistratibus ius dicendi coherdendique est libera potestas," Gromatici veteres, p. 135. back 38. Atti del Reale i stituto veneto, vol. LXII, p. 1039; Vierteljahrschrift für Sociologie und Wirtschaftsgeschichte, vol. II, p. 421 ff. back 39. Fueros y observancias del Reyno de Aragon, Zaragoça 1667, p. 56b. back 40. "Baccalaria indominicata" (866), Deloche, Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Beaulieu, p. 10, and again pp. 73, 202, 210, 270. back 41. "Qui in bosco boscauerint possint pascere in ea prata" (1145), HPM., Lib. jur. reip. gen., Vol. I, col. 108; "piscari uenari et boscare usque in riuum" (1219), ibid., Chartae, vol. I, col. 1255; "teneantur ipsi potestates quod per aliquos vel aliquibus sue potestacie non faciant trahi seu boschari aliquod lignamen ad opus ipsorum potestatum et iudicum vel scribarum" (13. cent.), ibid., Leg. gen., col. 23; "et tenent vasalli ipsius Ogerii communem et pasculare et buscare in ipsa curte Plazano" (1129), C. Vignati, Codice diplomatico laudense, Milano 1879, vol. I, p. 121; "tagliando buscum scilicet frascas et ramas....pascere debent et segare et buscare.... buscare de ramis et foliis omni tempore eis liceat, omnes tamen erba scilicet et ligna ad dorsum, non cum plaustro ferant" (1156), ibid., p. (1151), p. 165 f.; "ne debeant.....paschare buschare nec pischare" (1215), P. Sella, Statuta comunis Bugelle, Biella 1904, vol. II, p. 3; "ut extranea persona non debeat boscare seu pascare super terra communis," A. Valsecchi, Gli statuti di Albenga, Albenga 1885, p. 29; "interrogatus qualiter scit, quod homines Arelatis visi fuerint boscairare in dicto territorio, dixit quod vidit ibi Stephanum Gaillardum, qui faciebat inscidi ligna in deffenseto...dixit quia vidit homines Castillonis lignerare sive boscairare, et laborare et pascere animalia sua, et ejicere avere de Arelate, et boscadeiros" (1265), Ducange. back 42. "Dedi etiam domui et omnibus pertinentiis suis, quantascumque habuerit, in silva mea de Lesga usuarium ad omnia necessaria sua etiam tam viridi quam in sicco" (1083), M. Prou, Recueil des actes de Philippe Ier, Paris 1908, p. 278; "quoniam a predecessoribus suis tres cotidie quadrigatas in suis nemoribus de bosco mortuo ad opus coquine sive pistrini et elemosine ibidem monachi possidebant, hoc ille cupiens majorare, quartam quoque de vivo bosco perpetualiter concessit" (1101), ibid., p. 354. back 43. Ducange, sub boscus mortuus. back


  19. #18 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 11:58

    From the tenth century on we find bruscus and brusca (44) for buscus and busca, but in the northwest of Italy bruca and bruga became the most popular words for "faggots, fuelwood, twigs," while in France we have the fuller forms bruscia, broca, etc. Where formerly buscalia, buscaria was used, we find in the south brucaria, bruguera, bruaria, brueria for "brush grown country." This group, spreading to the north into regions where there was no forest, has been applied to heathergrown land. The Welsh brwg "forest, brush, ferns," which is borrowed from the English, shows the meaning "forest" and "fern" side by side, because the underlying meaning is deserted land, brush grown land, etc. The early loss of s in bruscus, brusca is explained by the influence of the Lat. brocchus, broncus, bronchus "provided with teeth," while Lat. branca "paw" produces branca, branchia "fuelwood, faggots" (45) and then "branch." Similarly bropa results from a crossing of brosca with Lat. scopa "thin twig," (46) and under the influence of Lat. frondem arises bronda. (47) But brusca "firewood" has produced bruscare, bruxare, brusare, and French brûler, from an older brusculare. We now can treat the Romance representatives of the group in a summary manner. We have "OFr. boschaille bois, boscheer, bouchoyer, bocheyer couper du bois, boschel, bochal, etc., buisson, bosquet, bocage, petit bois, bouche botte fagot, bouchage tas de fagots, boissier boisier, boichier qui travaille le bois, buschier abattre du bois et en faire des bûches, couper des branches d'arbres, busche, boize buche." If we keep in mind that boscare was the act of finding and knocking down the dry branches with the wooden stick, we see at once why we get "OFr. buschier, busquer, bucquier, bucquer, busser frapper, heurter, boucheter émouter, battre, mal traiter, busquer chercher." Forms with inserted r are: "broce, broche, brousse, brouce, brouse, etc., broussailles, hallier, petit bouquet d'arbres, broceron, brocheron petite branche courte, broçonner bourgeonner, reverdir, broisson rejeton." As early as the tenth century brustum means "forest fodder, young leaves, food for goats," (48) and from this comes "OFr. brost, brout, jeune pousse des arbres au printemps, broster brouter, brotage droit qu'on payait pour faire brouter ses bêtes quelque part, brotel, broteau taillis, broterie, brouterie lieu on broutent les animaux." From brusculum are derived "OFr. bruliau fagot, broussaille, brûlis portion de foret incendiée, de champs dont les herbes ont été brûlées, brusler brûler." Burjon "bourgeon," like "Prov. burca, burga, burja fourgonner, tisonner, aiguilloner, pousser, taquiner, cogner, heurter, bourjouna, broujouna, brouchona, brounchouna fourgonner, patrouiller, bousculer, Centre broquer, bruquer heurter, choquer" owes its origin to a contamination with Lat. brocchus, bronchus. A similar wealth of forms is to be found in the Provençal: "bos, bosc, boch, boi, bo, etc., bois, bousca rechercher, quêter, gagner les bois, déguerpir, bouscaia, bouscalha ramasser du bois, bouscaio, bouscalho bois en général, toute sorte de bois, bouscaren, bouissaren forestier, bouscas grand bois, futaie, épaisse forêt, forêt affreuse, mauvais bois, sauvage, bâtard, bousco recherche, bois en général, bousquet bosquet, petit bois, bousa boiser, couvrir de bois, bâtonner, rosser, boustiga remuer, fouiller, bouleverser, busc broutilles ou brussailles épineuses, busca busquer, bûcher, buscaia glaner des buchettes, buscaio broutille, brindille de bois mort, busqueja ramasser du bois, bussa cosser, heurter de la tête; bro, broc, brot, boc branche morte, scion, bûchette, épine, dard, buisson, bâton, broco bûchette, broutille sèche, brous broussaille, broussa balayer, broussaio broussailles, bruyère en général, brousso bruyère à balais, touffe de broyère, broust brout, pousse d'un taillis ramée, brousto pousse, ramée, branche, taillis, pousse de chou, chou brocoli, brout brout, jeune pousse des arbres et des plantes, brouta pousser, vegeter, brouto rejeton, nouvelle pousse, broutouna pousser, bourgeonner, brusc bruyère commune, tige de bruyère, brusqueirolo petit champ de bruyère, brusquié taillis de bruyères, brusquiero champ couvert de bruyère, bruyère, bruga taillis de bruyères; broundas rameau dont on se sert en guise de balai, brounditoun, broutihoun petite broutille, petit rameau, brounca, abrounca, brouncha, brunca, bruca, breca, ruca broncher, heurter, bruia, brulha, broulha pousser germer, reverdir, bruioun, brulhou, brellou, broulhou, bourlhou, orboulhou bourgeon, rejeton de chou, brula, brusla, brunla, burla, bourla, brouda brûler, incendier, bruscla, baruscla, bourouscla, brucla, bristoula, brounzi, brousi, brausi, abrausi, brusi, brui, broui haler, brûler, brusa, bruza, bruisa brûler." Since the corresponding Italian words have evolved out of the French terms, we naturally find them at first in the north. Beginning with the twelfth century we find recorded broco "twig, faggot" (49) and crossing with frasca we get frusca, (50) so later that Ital. bruscolo, fruscolo fuscello are synonymous, while broco develops further into sbrocco, sprocco. The forms with and without r interchange in the dialects, hence Genoese brusca bûsca = buscare "to seek" and bruscare "to brush," while Friul. busca = busca, busco, brusco, bruscolo, and brusçhâ and buschâ = dibruscare, bruscare, buscare. If we now consider that Ital. busso, buscio, fruscio at the same time mean "noise," it becomes at once clear that not only all these belong to the busco group, but that also French bruit is to be included in it. The development of "noise" is universal in Europe, as has been seen under vasta. Spanish brotar "to form buds," brote "bud," bruza "brush," buscar "seek" have developed from the French, and a careful search will in the Romance languages reveal a much larger number of words that belong to this group. I now turn to the second part of the expression arbustum vitatum. In Langobard Italy terra vitata is opposed to "terra campiva, aratoria, prativa, ortiva," to field and garden land, and also to "terra olivata, selvata," olive grove and forest. (51) Much older and much more popular is the use of vitis in the sense of terra vitata, "vites meas petia una in fundo bonate quem ego emmi" (745). (52) Although now and then the combination terra cum vitibus occurs, (53) from which may be assumed that it has the original meaning of vine-covered land, such expressions as "ipsa petiola est de uites et uacua terrola," (54) "petiola una de terrola cum uite et uacuum," (55) show that vites means "brush grown land." This vitis, which occurs in Langobard documents since the beginning of the eighth century, occurs at least as early in Frankish documents. In a spurious Merovingian document of the sixth century, which is, no doubt, not earlier than of the eighth century, the pertinence runs as follows, "haec omnia cum mancipiis desuper manentibus, mansis, domibus, aedificiis, curtiferis, widis, campis, vineis, silvis, pratis, pascuis, aquis aquarumve decursibus," (56) and again, "tam mansis, colonicis, aedificiis, silvis, ingrediciis, widis, campis, pratis, pascuis, aquis aquarumve decursibus." (57) Pardessus reads incorrectly for it unidis, campis, (58) while Quantin has the significant reading vuidis, campis. (59) In another, most likely spurious, document, which is said to be of the year 499, but which exists in a copy of the thirteenth century, we find the same pertinence, "haec omnia cum mancipiis desuper manentibus, mansis domibus aedificiis cultiferis mudiscapis vineis silvis campis pratis pascuis aquis aquarumve descursibus," (60) where, of course, mudiscapis is a misread vuidis campis or widis campis. The position of this vuidis campis between curtiferis and vineis does not permit any doubt that we are dealing here with some kind of a plantation, and the identical juxtaposition of vitis and campum of the Langobard documents shows that what in Italy formed two distinct words and concepts here begins to be conceived as one idea, so that in the last quoted document, but not in the first two, campis is once more repeated before pratis. The constant use of vuidis campis in the pertinence has led to regarding this as a compound. Now, as vasta has led to forestis, and bustum to bruscus, etc., and uacatum to vacartum, (61) so widis campis has changed into widriscapis, (62) wadriscapis, (63) watriscapis, (64) watriscafis, (65) vatriscafis, (66) wardi scampis, (67) uuatriscapud, (68) wardriscapis, (69) warescapiis, (70) wariscapiis (71) quadriscapis, (72) quadris campis, (73) wastris campis, (74) votris campis. (75) Ducange also records wadiscabum and waskium. From this variety of forms has arisen OFr. warescais, warescait, warescape, wareschel "tierres vagues, lieux destinés à la pâturage publique," (76) and to these are to be added Wallon. warechais, wareschaix, Liège wercha, Mont. warescaix, waréchaix, wareskaix "pâturages communaux, vaines pâtures." All these words belong to the north of France. Otherwise the older form widis, vuidis has spread over a very large territory. In the Chanson de Roland we have once voide place, (77) and once voide terre. (78) In the latter case we have a precise rendering of Ital. terra vidata, and from a large number of documents of the thirteenth century we know that wide, voide terre was the technical expression for "wasteland." This is also the case in the Chanson de Roland, where the word never occurs again, although one would expect it, if it already had the current meaning of "empty." Besides, the last quoted verses sound like an imitation of the documentary pertinence "cum viis et semiteriis et vidis terris et arboribus et planis." Godefroy quotes several passages in wich wide terre means "pasturage." (79) However, the wides terres are not exactly pastures, but fallow land overgrown with brush, used as pastures. They are opposed to pleines terres "cultivated lands," as may be seen from a discussion of Philippe Beaumanoir in the thirteenth century. (80) For vuide terre we also find vaine et vuide. (81) This vaine is only a learned adaptation to vana, but has in reality arisen from gain. (82) Gain means "extraordinary, unexpected gain." In Godefroy there are a number of quotations in which he falsely translates gain by "fruit de la terre, recolte," where it should have been rendered "regain, rowen." In the lines: Si a veu en une pleigne Berbiz qui paissoient gain (Renart VIII. 175). gain can only refer to "grass." For "autumn" Godefroy records waym, wain, vain, win, gayn, gain, vayng, gaain, and he adduces a large number of forms from the dialects. (83) As the original meaning of gain was forgotten and it meant any kind of gain, there was formed in French, first recorded in Littre in the sixteenth century, the pleonastic regain for "rown," for which we have the dialectic, Picard. reguin, rouain, Wallon rigain. To these are to be added Morvan "regâmer repousser, pousser de nouveau, Normand revouin regain, revouiner possuer comme le regain, revoiner reverdir, Comtois (Fourges) ruwain," (84) Berry "reguiner pousser en regain." (85) From the Norman revouin comes Engl. rowen. later popularized to roughings. The distribution of this word in the south is particularly interesting, because it shows to what wild transformations, utterly baffling philology and phonetics, a word may be subjected. Levy records gaim in the Provence. In Berry we already find regouiver for reguiner. In the south the case is much worse. In Lyons we get the forms reviouro, revioulo, revuro, revivro, revioro, reviula "regain." (86) After this one will not be surprised at the extravagances recorded in Mistral. Here we get revieure, rouibre, rouire, rouibre, rebouibre, reboulbre, roubibre, roudibre, gouibre, reboulibre, rebouribre, reboulume, relubre, rebouchouire, reboujouire, reboussouire, rourieu, bourieu, abourieu, aurieu, bouirieu, vourieu, vouri, voueiri. (87) One sees plainly how, beginning with gain in the north of France, the forms get worse and worse as they proceed south. If we turn to the Atlas linguistique de la France (N° 1139), one can get a clear idea how it has happened. Gain occurs only sporadically in the northwest, in Côtes-du-Nord, Orne, D.-Sèvres, while in Belgium forms arising from wain are universal. If a straight line is drawn from Bordeaux to Châlonssur-Saône, we get to the north of it the regain group. From Belgium, where the rewain froms are exceptional, the rewain words go straight south, here and there alternating with wain. Towards Switzerland begin the corruptions which produce the Provençal forms. In Doubs regain, rewain, wain meet. In the southwest of Switzerland we get rekwai, while in Jura and Doubs we have rewain. Towards the east rise the forms rekwa, rekwar, rekor, reko, and these go south to Savoie and Ain. In Isère rekor stands side by side with revur, and the latter explains the other corruptions of the south. In the south, along the coast, and along the Pyrenees, in Landes and Gironde, that is, at the periphery, derivations from regain are exceptional. Here we have the freely formed reprin or retaille, and Covarubias was certainly right when he derived Span. retoño from the synonymous retallo. If this map may be safely trusted as representing a historic tradition, and there is nothing to contradict such an assumption, the whole group must have had its birth in the north, spreading in two streams, one directly to the south, the other along the western border, equally to the south and towards Switzerland, taking from there a westerly direction. We are, therefore, compelled to assume that an intensive use of the rowen proceeded from the north. French gaim, waim has entered Italy in the form guaime, and guimeau, waymal has produced there gomireccio, grumereccio, again proving the assumption that the group proceed from the north of France. The same confirmation is found in Germany. MHG. amat, üemet, Swiss amad, German Emde, Oehmd, Ohmet, Ohmt "rowen" are transformations of the French waim, with a leaning towards the MHG. mat "mowing," and as Fr. guimeau has led to Ital. grumereccio, so it has also produced German Grummet, with a possible popular derivation from "grün" and "Mahd." Endnotes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 44. "Brusca Marcofeldis" (949), Bouquet, op. cit., vol. IX, p. 382; "Pumar cum toto caverso usque in toto Brusco" (1042), Muñoz y Romero, Coleccion de fueros municipales, p. 191. Back 45. "Brancas etiam de Leia, quantum necesse fuerit ad focum monachorum" (1073), Prou, Recueil des actes de Philippe Ier, p. 168; "in saisina habendi usagium suum subscriptum, videlicet percipiendi brueriam, fulgeriam, et folium quod cecidit de arboribus, pasnagium ad 3, denarios pro porco, pasturam ad animalia sua in vallibus, secando herbam a festo S. Joannis usque ad Assumptionem B. Mariae virginis in defensis etiam forestae...percipiendi etiam branchas siccas cum croceo ligneo sine ferro" (1271), Ducange, sub branca. Back 46. "Statutum est, quod aliquis laborator.....non audeat aportare aliquas sarmentas, vel bropas, vel alia ligna absque expressa licentia illius cujus laborat," Ducange, sub bropa. Back 47. "Brondae olivariorum, vel aliarum arborum," Ducange, sub bronda. Back 48. "Capreae quoque ad sotularia monachorum facienda brustum habeant per totum boscum," Ducange. Back 49. "Ramos et brochas cuidam alboris pini" (1289), P. Monti, Vocabolario dei dialetti della città e diocesi di Como, Milano 1845; "fructus a brochis separatis" (1176), ibid; "pecia una campi cum brugis" (1269), ibid. Back 50. "Fruscas vel ramos de arboribus" (1313), Statuti di Brescia, in HPM., vol. XVI, col. 1720. Back 51. "De suprascripta terra vidata me nihil reservo" (785), Cod. Langob., col. 113; "pecia prativa....pecia vidata, pecia campiva" (857), ibid., col. 337; "estas cum curte, orto, area et terra vidata" (859), ibid., col. 346; "una vitata et alia campiva et vitata uno tenente" (867), ibid., col. 405; "terra campiva et prativa, vitata et silvata" (915), ibid., col. 803; "terrola aratoria seo et vidata" (869), Muratori, Antiq., vol. I, col. 721; "petia una de terra vitata cum campo" (878), F. Odorici, Storie bresciane, vol. IV, p. 65; "duas pecias terras uni in parte vidata et in parte aratoria et alia aratoria" (961), ibid., vol. V, p. 14; "pecias septe de terra tres vidates cum quadtuor arbores olives supabete, et tres aratorias setima ortiva" (1016), ibid., p. 27; "una pecia terre arative vidate et prative" (1104), ibid., vol. VI, p. 14; "terrae aratoriae, vitatae, et olivatae et vegrae" (1221), ibid., vol. VII, p. 98. Back 52. Cod. Langob., col. 26. "Curtes terras vites pratas et silvas.....terra vitis, prata" (761), ibid., col. 49 f.; "terra aratoria seu vitis" (768), ibid., col. 69; "media juge de terra aratoria" (769), ibid., col. 76; "campis pratis vidibus et selvis" (799), ibid., col. 130; "secunda petiola vitis cum castenellum in simul se habente" (812), ibid., col. 163; "petia de vites" (867), ibid., col. 411 f.; "quarta pecia de vites jacet ad vinea Vicana" (974), ibid., col. 1314; "vites et oliveta" (983), Cod. dip. pad. dal sesto, etc., p. 66, and similarly pp. 85, 116, 117, 124, 136, 218, 278; "vineis.....et ortos duos duasque petias de vite" (1033), ibid., p. 162; "pecia una de terra cum vitibus" (1073), ibid., p. 245; "terra una de vite et alia de terra arva" (795), M. Lupi, Codex diplomaticus civitatis et ecclesiae Bergomatis, Bergomi 1784, vol. I, p. 606. Back 53. Troya, op. cit., vol. IV, p. 469 (753). Back 54. Bullettino dell' istituto storico italiano, N° 30, p. 64 (758). Back 55. Ibid., p. 69 (762). Back 56. MGH., Dipl. imp., vol. I, p. 133. Back 57. Ibid., p. 134. Back 58. J.M. Pardessus, Diplomata, vol. I, p. 132. Back 59. M. Quantin, Cartulaire général de l'Yonne, Auxerre 1854, vol. I, pp. 3 and 4. Back 60. MGH., op. cit., p. 116. Back 61. "Que conjacet in vuacatis ipsius villae" (954-986), C. Ragut, Cartulaire de Saint-Vincent de Mâcon, Mâcon 1864, p. 179; "que conjacet in vacartis ipsius villae," ibid., p. 178. Back 62. "Hoc sunt sessi cum widriscapis, casis" (722), Martène and Durand, Veterum scriptorum et monumentorum collectio, vol. I, col. 19. Back 63. "Cum domibus, edificiis, curtiferis, cum wariscapis (waris campis), terris," MGH., Formulae, pp. 266, 268, 269, 270, 175, 179, Martène and Durand, op. cit. (837), vol. I, col. 127, D. Haignéré, Les chartes de Saint-Bertin, Saint Omer 1886, vol. I, p. 20 (975), Monumenta Boica, vol. XXVIII, p. 69 (796). Back 64. Pardessus, vol. II, p. 289 (711). Back 65. Ibid., p. 293 (713). Back 66. Ibid., p. 291 (712). Back 67. F. Dahn, Die Könige der Germanen, Leipzig 1905, vol. IX, div. 2, p. 85. Back 68. Warnkoenig (Gheldolf), Histoire de la Flandre, Paris 1835, vol. I, p. 326 (839). Back 69. Ch. Piot, Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint Trond, Bruxelles 1870, vol. I, p. 2 (741). Back 70. Ibid., p. 5. Back 71. MGH., Scriptores, vol. X, p. 371 (745). Back 72. D. Haignéré, op. cit., p. 9 (800). Back 73. D'Achery, Spicilegium, vol. III, col. 342 (850), J. B. Mittarelli, Annales camadulenses Ordinis Sancti Benedictini, Venetiis 1755, vol. I, col. 22. Back 74. W. Ritz, Urkunden und Abhandlungen zur Geschichte des Niederrheins und der Niedermaas, Aachen 1824, p. 7 (824). Back 75. Ibid., p. 14 (895). Back 76. Godefroy gives an extremely large number of citations for these words. Back 77. "Que mort l'abat en une voide place" (v. 1668). Back 78. "Il n'en i ad ne veie ne senter, Ne voide terre ne alne ne plein pied Que il n'i ait u Franceis u paien." (v. 2399-2401). Back 79. "Les pasturages de toutes les wides terres qui sient (1284); de laquelle wide terre vendue si com dit est li dis venderes se devestit en la main du prevost de Maisieres (1336); asqueles III. quartiers il ne prist nul pourfit a le premiere anee, et les doit laisier a wides (1360)." Back 80. "S'il avient que li mors muire avant que le blé soient semé, mes les terres ont leur roies ou aucunes de leur roies, ou les vignes sont fouïes ou taillies ou provignies, mes les grapes ní aperent pas encore, en teus cas ne vienent pas des despueilles qui puis i sont mises en partie, mes li labourages tant seulement de tans passé: si comme se les jaschieres sont fetes au vivant du seigneur et li douaires a la dame li est assis en terres vuides, se les jaschieres furent fetes du sien et du son seigneur it est bien resons que ce qui i fu mis de sa partie li soit rendu de ceus qui en portent les jaschieres toutes fetes. Voir est quant il convient que li douaires soit essieutes de la partie as oirs, la coustume est tel que la dame qui veut avoir le douaire, fet la partie et, quant ele a la partie fete, l'oirs du mort prent laquele partie qu'il li plest; et pour ce est il bon a la dame, s'ele met les terres vuides d'une part et les pleines d'autre, qu'ele face retenue que, se li oir ou li executeur prenent les terres pleine (terres wides ou pleines), que sa partie de muebles li soit sauvee; car s'ele lessoit courre la partie simplement sans fere retenue, ele n'avroit nul restor des terres pleines, pour ce qu'il sembleroit qu'ele avroit tout avalue l'un contre l'autre," Am. Salmon, Philippe de Beaumanoir, Coutumes de Beauvaisis, Paris 1899, vol. I, p. 220 f. (chap. XIII, 458 and 459). Back 81. In Gaston Phebus, quoted by La Curne de la Sainte-Palaye, sub vuit. Back 82. See the chapter on Quovis genio. Back 83. "Lorr., Fillieres wayin, culture d'automne pour semer le blé. S.-Dizier, semer le vain: 'Quand nous serons en vain nous payerons les domestiques.' Apres le vain, on fait le chien. Fr.-Comté, vahin, vaihin, vouaihin, vouain, vain, automne; vahin, voyain, vouyain, regain. Gain, guien, synonyme de regain dans le departement des Deux-Sèvres et dans le H.-Maine. Centre de la France, Issoudoun, aller au gain, aller en vendanges. Poitou, gain, guiain, regain, seconde coupe des prairies." Besides, Godefroy cites gaaigneau, gaigneau, gaynau, ganneau, guimeau, guimau, waymal, "qui se joint habituellement avec le mot pré pour designer un pré à regain, un pré qui se fauchait deux fois par an" and "en Touraine, l'on disait gaimau, en Saintonge gueymaulx." Back 84. E. de Chambure, Glossaire du Morvan, Paris, Autun 1878. Back 85. H. Moisy, Dictionnaire de patois normand, Caen 1887. Back 86. N. du Puitspelu, Dictionnaire étymologique du patois lyonnais, Lyon 1890. Back 87. To these must be added Vosges. woye, woeye, r'woye, N. Haillant, Dictionnaire phonétique et étymologique, Epinal 1885. Back


  20. #19 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 11:59

    NO DIGO QUE SE PUEDA CONDIVIDIR TODO...PERO ESTO SENOR ERA UN GRANDE...CASI COMO SILMARILLION ;-)


  21. #20 silmarillion sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 15:43

    muy interesante tu texto giorgio. fijate que cuando estaba preparando el artículo sobre paleocristiano me tope con El Bovalar de Seros, y proximo al Bovalar esta tambien Bovera. Ya habia hallado la referencia que bovalar era un campo destinado a animales pero no el origen, que se encuentra en este texto que citas: ..., but here busto, understood as bostar, has further been corrupted to boalare, (39) that is, bostar "a place for oxen," has produced boale and boalare. In the Limousin this boalare has in the ninth century given rise to baccalaria, (40) as though it were a place for cows. These baccalariae naturally lay far away from the .... Ahora me queda la siguiente pregunta que realizo a todos los druidas: Puede ser este señalado en el texto, el origen de muchos ( no de todos) los topónimos Bóveda?


  22. #21 silmarillion sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 15:58

    giorgio, *weidh- en el sentido de separado, tambien da origen al latin vidŭus, a widow y viuda/o


  23. #22 Aga sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 16:14

    En euskera basa


  24. #23 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 16:44

    Si quieres descargar el testo entero http://www.northvegr.org/lore/germaniclaw/


  25. #24 silmarillion sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 16:58

    gracias giorgio


  26. #25 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 17:04

    creo que sea muy interesante...


  27. #26 silmarillion sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 18:04

    bovalar, bovera, boale/ boalare DINÀMIQUES URBANÍSTIQUES AUTODESTRUCTIVES. UN EXEMPLE: LA PARTIDA BOVALAR A la zona oest de la ciutat, en direcció a Borriol, trobem la partida del Bovalar. Concretament entre el camí del Collet i el camí de Borriol a la costa, i entre la quadra tercera (la del Mercat d'Abastos) i la quadra segona. El bovalar antigament era el lloc on pasturaven els bous, un terreny no conreat, cobert de vegetació natural http://www.altrecastello.com/dossiers/partbova.htm Con respecto a Bóveda he hallado lo siguiente: Portal Galego da Língua E persuasiva a etimologia de Coromines no DCECeH, do germ. *BUWITHA, particípio de BUAN (U longo) ''construir; morar'' (alemam BAUEN). O topónimo Bóveda nom é castelhanismo, mas arcaísmo, natural em toponímia. No Machado vemos que a primeira documentaçom era ''abóveda'' (séc. XIV). Em 1474 aparece como ''abóbeda'', o que indicaria a forma proceder do Norte. A forma actual, ''abóbada'', é do séc. XVI. Portanto, a única diferença em Bóveda é o A protético. Quanto à semântica do topónimo, aludirá ao edifício nuclear que o originaria. Era frequente nomear metonimicamente os edifícios: Paços, Arcos, Bóveda,...


  28. #27 giorgiodieffe sábado, 05 de febrero de 2005 a las 19:22

    acà hay apellido familiar "boaglio" y no existen exlicacciones... alguien dijo que viene de un nombre de persona medieval "bovalius"...yo crea que fuese un toponimo


  29. #28 silmarillion domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 17:50

    he encontrado un foro de boaglio en ancestry.com, parecen todos provenir de bagnolo y pinerolo muy proximos a tu ciudad giorgio.


  30. #29 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 20:52

    Giorgio: ¿Hay un lugar próximo a tu ciudad que se llama Bagnolo? Aquí hay un pago llamado El Bañuelo, en el que hay una ciudad prerromana y hemos localizado una nedrópolis también. ¿Por qué crees que es tan corriente Bañuelo- Bagnolo y no Baño- Bagno? En castellano Baño viene de un lat. vg. baneum y de balneum vienen por ejemplo boñar (al> o) y boñuelo


  31. #30 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:23

    si es asì, pero yo creo que bagnolo no deriva de balneus sino del germanico "band"...y eran bosques bandidos en epoca medieval. Esto lo escribì yo: Sgombriamo, comunque, il terreno dalle fole raccontate da eruditi del secolo XVIII e XIX: in epoca romana, a Bagnolo non sorsero “bagni termali”. L’equivoco fu ingenerato solo dalla cattiva interpretazione d’una lapide cavourese, che si riferisce alla fonte attualmente prossima alla chiesa parrocchiale di Cavour. Neppure il toponimo Bagnolo è così antico e non deriva affatto da balneum , cioè “bagno”, tramite il diminutivo balneolum, come gli stessi eruditi avrebbero voluto. Eppure, ancor oggi, si leggono frasi del genere: “Secondo alcuni il nome Balneolum deriverebbe da “bagno pubblico”, eretto da Attilia Asprilla, sorella dell’imperatore Caligola. Altri invece pensano che Balneolum fosse più semplicemente un serbatoio d’acqua usato per far macerare la canapa”. Purtroppo per chi s’ostina a sostenere questa fantasiosa ipotesi, Attilia Asprilla è una bella invenzione, che deriva da lettura erronea della seguente lapide (con lettere corsive aggiunte da Promis) : ATTIA M.F. SECVNDA ASPRI FLAMINICA DIVAE DRVSILLAE BALNEVM ET PISCINAM SOLO SVO MVNICIPIBUS SVIS DEDIT Corrispondente, cioè, a: “Azzia Seconda, figlia di Marco, moglie di Aspro, sacerdotessa della dea Drusilla, fece dono ai concittadini del piccolo bagno e della piscina realizzata sul proprio suolo”. Come ebbi già modo di sostenere altre volte, ritengo fermamente che il toponimo Bagnolo, attestato fin dal Basso Medioevo nella forma genitiva Bagnolj derivi proprio dal termine francone bampn, da riferirsi ad un “bosco bandito”, esistente in loco dopo l’invasione franca del regno longobardo. Il termine germanico di origine franca bampn (attestato per la prima volta nel Capitulare Clonnense Mundacum dell’825 d.C., ma certamente più antico ), andò originariamente a significare quel potere di comandare e vietare, prima appartenente al solo re, poi, in seguito, anche ai domini e, in ultimo, alle Communitates costituite da homines. Esso passò attraverso diverse vie evolutive, fino a venire ad identificare anche determinati territori boschivi sui quali cadeva un “divieto” d’uso. Basti far notare come la prima parte del toponimo “Bagnolo” e cioè bagn- sia la trasposizione romanza locale di bampn e che il suffisso latino medievale -olum abbia soltanto funzione aggettivale diretta a precisarne “le dimensioni” (cioè la limitata estensione effettiva del bosco bannale medesimo) oppure l’ “amenità” (intesa come buona esposizione al sole). L’uso di toponimi forestali derivanti da bampn negli atti antichi è facilmente dimostrabile. Pensiamo alla: - la Silva Bannale, presso Benevagienna; - il Bamp ,un bosco presso Chiomonte, in Val Susa; - la Bannita Cluse, in Val Pesio; - Bandito, frazione di Bra; - Banditum, un bosco di Villar San Costanzo; - il Nemus Bandi di Caraglio - Il Bosco di Banna di Poirino. Ne aggiungerei, volentieri, ancora altri, per i quali la “b-” iniziale è stata sostituita da una “p-”, seguendo una pronuncia che affermerei, senza esitare, germanica. Voglio citare, ad esempio, un bosco bargese detto Adritto di Pagno / Adrit dë Panh (sulla Media, al confine con Agliasco di Paesana) e la località della valle Bronda chiamata semplicemente Pagno / Ën Panh. In quest’ultimo caso, si doveva trattare pure originariamente di una località boschiva, perché lo stesso nome della vallata, Bronda evoca un simile ambiente naturale. Escluderei, comunque, che il termine Pagno, possa derivare da un onomastico latino, come qualcuno vorrebbe, per poter retrodatare la fondazione del monastero di San Pietro di Pagno. Non è un caso che il primo documento che citi tale monastero sia dell’imperatore franco Lotario I e dati 825 d.C.: “monasterium quoddam, quod Appanis nuncupatur” . In altri atti del monastero di Breme, troviamo “in Panni” (12 luglio 982); poi, “Apagni” e “Apanni”. Si tratta, a volte, di forme genitive, costruite su un ad Pannum, ad Pagnum. Particolarmente interessante è vedere come la parlata romanza locale avesse precocemente modificato la doppia “-nn-” in una “-gn-”. Il monastero in questione era stato costruito presso un bosco, perché i monaci cercavano la solitudine. Sul bosco medesimo, poi, in epoca franca, si era esteso un “potere bannale”, facendolo divenire un bosco bannale, cioè “il Banno” per antonomasia ed “Ën Panh” , nella parlata popolare romanza. D’altronde, l’ipotesi di una forma Banniolo/Banniolium (di più chiara origine), accanto ad una Bagnolium/Baignolium, trova conferma in vari testi ecclesiastici, raccolti nel Cartario Ulciense . Si possono confrontare, a tal fine, i seguenti documenti: 1. atto di conferma a Pietro II , Prevosto di Oulx, in data antecedente l’aprile 1143, del possesso della ecclesiam de Banniolo 2. bolla di Papa Eugenio III, datata 14 marzo 1148, che parla di ecclesias de Baignolio 3. bolla di Papa Adriano IV, datata 12 marzo 1158, che parla di ecclesiam de Banniolo 4. bolla di papa Alessandro III, datata 7 aprile 1172, che parla di ecclesiam de Banniolo 5. il Rotulus feudorum Episcopatum Taurinensis, che probabilmente risale agli inizi del XIII secolo, dove si legge: “Jacobus de Caburro tenet decimam de Banniolio”. Dal XIII secolo in avanti, comunque, la forma Bagnolium sembra prevalere su tutte le altre, sia nei documenti ecclesiastici, che laici. Nel territorio bagnolese, l’insediamento primitivo è un villar detto “del” Bagnolo (e non “di” Bagnolo), cioè non un centro demico ad similitudinem urbis, ma, piuttosto, case sparse in un territorio ancora ampiamente boschivo e facenti riferimento ad una piccola chiesa cristiana (originariamente neppure dotata di fonte battesimale).


  32. #31 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:26

    Ma, per comprenderci meglio, è preferibile spiegare che cosa si intendesse per bampn/ban/band, nelle lingue germaniche. Il termine bampn nacque certamente in territorio franco, oltre le Alpi: il primo documento noto nel quale lo si usi è il Capitulare Clonnense Mundacum, dell’825 dopo Cristo, imputabile a Carlo il Calvo. La parola francone bampn fu latinizzata, dapprima, in bampnus e, poi, al neutro, in bampnum. In Italia, si preferì la soluzione bannum , ma si adottò anche quella bandum, formatasi nelle cancellerie della Germania. In epoca carolingia, si definiva potere bannale l’autorità reale di comandare e vietare. Alla base, v’era il rituale di conquista d’un territorio da parte delle genti germaniche: dove veniva piantato il vessillo reale era quella l’autorità in nome della quale si comandava. Ed il vessillo era indicato con un termine simile in varie lingue germaniche: bind/bend/band, cioè “striscia di stoffa”. Noi abbiamo tutti presente la scena più recente di cui fu attore Cristoforo Colombo, quando conquistò le Indie Occidentali, conficcando il vessillo del Re di Spagna sulla spiaggia della prima isola raggiunta e prendendone possesso a nome e per suo conto. Compiendo tale gesto, però, costui non fece altro che rinnovare un’antica gestualità germanica. Proprio la nostra bandiera è una parola che deriva da band, seguito dal suffisso latino -aria. In antico, il termine bandiera stava a significare anche la compagnia di armati comandata da un capitano. Ma, in italiano, esiste ancora benda, come “striscia di stoffa, per stringere le ferite e proteggere le medicazioni” bandito, con il significato di “fuorilegge” e banditore, è il pubblico ufficiale al quale si affidava la lettura ad alta voce dei bandi, cioè le “grida”. In tale ultima accezione, il bando corrisponde ad un “atto giuridico normativo”: in Piemonte, si parlava di Bandi Campestri e Bandi Politici, riferendosi ad atti emanati dalle singole Comunità per disciplinare certe attività riguardanti la campagna o il centro urbano ed interinati (cioè, registrati) dal Senato sabaudo. Ma, nel latino medievale dei notai sabaudi bampnus/bannus fu anche la “multa” per chi non avesse rispettato le prescrizione normative comunali. Accadde pure che certi boschi particolarmente importanti per la Comunità vennero banditi, cioè protetti con un banno


  33. #32 silmarillion domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:41

    giorgio, que fue de la " piccola chiesa cristiana (originariamente neppure dotata di fonte battesimale)"


  34. #33 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:48

    ea una iglesia "romanica", pero fue demolida para hacer una iglesia gotica en el siglo XV, pues en 1892 fue demolida para hacer una plaza y una nueva grande iglesia neogotica (una schifezza) :-)


  35. #34 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:51

    importante es decir que el enlace "Bañuelo/necropolis" pueda no significar nada


  36. #35 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 22:56

    jeromor: hablas de El Bañuelo de Fuenlabrada?


  37. #36 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:07

    Giorgio: Gracias por tu interesantísimo artículo. Lo voy a leer con mucho cuidado. No es que diga que Bañuelo y necrópolis tengan algo que ver. Simplemente el asentamiento antiguo quizás era recordado en la época medieval por algo que a la gente de aquel tiempo les llamaba mucho la atención, los restos de una zona balnear. Es curioso como, por ejemplo, otro lugar con un asentamioento romano, también en Madrid, aparece en la 1ª edición del mapa 1: 50.000 como Antigua Casa de Baños. Efectivamengte en el lugar se han excavado unas termas. El lugar de la necrópolis dentro del pago del Bañuelo, en la prospección previa que hemos hecho, se llama Matahijos, topónimo que, curiosamente, en Beas (Huelva, se ubica en un lugar en el que se ha producido también el hallazgo de múltiples enterramientos en forma de cistas. Ahora bien, si no entiendo mal, tu Bagnolo deriva de una palabra germánica, band. Aquí la toponimia de origen germánico sólo puede ser debida a la presencia visigoda. Sería posible, porque hay mucha presencia visigoda, pero en la zona en que está y junto a un asentamiento carpetano llamado Loranca< Lauran(ica), es imposible que hubiera un bosque. ¿Qué quieres decir con un bosque bandido, un bos?


  38. #37 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:07

    Giorgio: Gracias por tu interesantísimo artículo. Lo voy a leer con mucho cuidado. No es que diga que Bañuelo y necrópolis tengan algo que ver. Simplemente el asentamiento antiguo quizás era recordado en la época medieval por algo que a la gente de aquel tiempo les llamaba mucho la atención, los restos de una zona balnear. Es curioso como, por ejemplo, otro lugar con un asentamioento romano, también en Madrid, aparece en la 1ª edición del mapa 1: 50.000 como Antigua Casa de Baños. Efectivamengte en el lugar se han excavado unas termas. El lugar de la necrópolis dentro del pago del Bañuelo, en la prospección previa que hemos hecho, se llama Matahijos, topónimo que, curiosamente, en Beas (Huelva, se ubica en un lugar en el que se ha producido también el hallazgo de múltiples enterramientos en forma de cistas. Ahora bien, si no entiendo mal, tu Bagnolo deriva de una palabra germánica, band. Aquí la toponimia de origen germánico sólo puede ser debida a la presencia visigoda. Sería posible, porque hay mucha presencia visigoda, pero en la zona en que está y junto a un asentamiento carpetano llamado Loranca< Lauran(ica), es imposible que hubiera un bosque. ¿Qué quieres decir con un bosque bandido, un bos?


  39. #38 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:08

    que en el que se refugiaban bandidos, outlaws?


  40. #39 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:11

    Giorgio: ¿Cómo conoces El Bañuelo de Fuenlabrada?


  41. #40 silmarillion domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:13

    creo que se refiere a bandido por bando jeromor, dice "banditi, cioè protetti con un banno "


  42. #41 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:16

    que es bandido? bandido significa muchas cosas...los outlows...pero tambien lo que es protegido con un poder banal, un poder de hacerte pagar una pena pecuniaria si contravienes


  43. #42 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:19

    como lo conozco? yo tenia una enamorada allà jajajaja ...simplemente he preguntado en el todopoderoso www.google.com


  44. #43 silmarillion domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:21

    giorgio, la confusion es por que bandido es: Fugitivo de la justicia llamado por bando.


  45. #44 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:22

    bandido puede ser un bosque, pero no solo. puede ser tambien un lugar en los alrededores de una ciudad...ejemplo "la banlieu" de Paris


  46. #45 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:24

    si en italiano es lo mismo...se dice "bandito"=outlaw y se dice "metter al bando"= "vietare" ad esempio: "in Italia, il funo è stato messo recentemente al bando da ogni locale pubblico" :-)


  47. #46 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:25

    fumo (humo) no funo :-)


  48. #47 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:28

    Giorgio: Eres un pillín, un niño malo. En esta zona del S de Madrid hemos sacado en los últimos tres o cuatro años tres o cuatro grandes yacimientos visigodos, todos al borde de arroyos, siguiendo lineamente el cauce, a veces durante casi 2 Km de longitud, en Arroyomolinos (El Pelícano, curioso topónimo), en Leganés (Polvoranca< Paludeveranica?), entre Leganés y Fuenlabrada (La Recomba< Rivi convallem) y ahora en Fuenlabrada. Pero los visigodos llegaron aquí a principios del s. VI y no pudieron traer una palabra franca documentada en el s. VIII a menos que ambas deriven de un nombre germánico común. De todas formas ya te digo que aquí es casi imposible que se trate de un bosque porque en esta zona posiblemente no hay bosques desde época prerromana.


  49. #48 giorgiodieffe domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:33

    tienes absolumente razon, no solo para el niño malo... pero, tien presente que el francon era simplemente una lengua germanica y que todas las otras tenian algo similar a la palabra fronca "bampn". En alemania, se preferia "band" la transformacion banh/bagn/bañ es romanica...logicamente para nosotros piamonteses la raiz es franca...para vosostros puede ser gotica


  50. #49 silmarillion domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:34

    en ingles se dice ban y la raiz IE es bha-2


  51. #50 jeromor domingo, 06 de febrero de 2005 a las 23:35

    Sobre el tema del que estamos hablando mirad lo que dice una interesantísima página francesa: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bernard.langellier/etymologie/etymoforie.htm "L'étymologie de "Banlieue" illustre bien cette idée : La forêt était le biotope des "bandits", c'est-à-dire de personnes mises au ban ; aujourd'hui le lieu de mise au ban est la banlieue ou le faubourg, étymologiquement for-bourg, c'est-à-dire bourg du dehors. Ainsi l'étymologie semble bien montrer cette inversion topique : l'insécurité est passée de la "for-êt" au "for-bourg". Esto de internet es hablando mal y pronto, la rehostia.


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